[I. CALL TO ORDER] [00:00:05] I'D LIKE TO CALL THE SEPTEMBER MEETING OF THE SOUTHAMPTON PLANNING COMMISSION TO ORDER. I'M GOING TO ASK BEFORE WE GET STARTED ALBEIT IF EVERYONE WOULD STAYING AND WE RECITE THE PLEDGE OF ALLEGIANCE TO OUR FLAG. I PLEDGE ALLEGIANCE TO THE FLAG OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA, AND TO THE REPUBLIC WHICH STANDS ONE NATION UNDER GOD, INDIVISIBLE, WITH LIBERTY AND JUSTICE FOR ALL. I'M GONNA ASK YOU TO REMAIN STANDING. MR. CHAIRMAN, WOULD YOU PLEASE. IF YOU'D LIKE TO JOIN ME IN A PRAYER PLEASE DO. FATHER WE JUST THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR THE STRENGTH AND ENERGY YOU'VE GIVEN US TO BE ABLE TO BE HERE TONIGHT. LORD I ASK THAT YOU TO HELP US USE THIS ENERGY FOR YOUR PURPOSES AND TO HELP LEAD AND GUIDE THE DIRECTION OF THIS COUNTY. LORD WE THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR BEING IN CONTROL. GOD HELP US RESPOND TO THE THINGS THAT ARE BEYOND OUR CONTROL. AND HELP US RESPOND IN MANNERS THAT POINT OTHERS TO YOU. THEY GIVE YOU MORE PRAISE AND MORE AND MORE GLORY THAT YOU DESERVE. LORD AGAIN, WE ASK THAT YOU BE IN OUR CONVERSATIONS TONIGHT, LORD GIVE US MORE WISDOM. [INAUDIBLE] IN JESUS NAME, AMEN. MAY BE SEATED. AGAIN. WELCOME TO OUR MEETING TONIGHT. I'M GOING TO ASK MS. BAKER IF SHE'LL MAKE A NOTE THAT MRS. ALLSTON AND MR. MANN ARE NOT IN ATTENDANCE TONIGHT. AND REVEREND LUCAS AND REVEREND LUCAS AS WELL. CORRECT. AND I THINK HE HAD CALLED EARLY LAST WEEK. OKAY. THEY MAY SHOW UP, SOME OF THEM MAY LATER, BUT THEY'RE NOT HERE YET. OKAY. AGAIN, WELCOME TO OUR MEETING. AND I SEE EVERYBODY'S GOT THEIR PACKETS ON THE TABLE, BUT I VIEWED THE MINUTES [II. APPROVAL OF MINUTES ] ON THE INTERNET, ON THE WEBSITE. BUT THE MINUTES WERE NOT MAILED OUT. IS THAT CORRECT? THAT'S CORRECT. SO IT WAS A WEEK LATE FOR THE FAIR. SO I UNDERSTAND PERFECTLY. SO IF YOU HAD NOT HAD TIME TO REVIEW THE MINUTES. IS IT ACCEPTABLE WE CAN DO IT FOR NEXT MONTH? CERTAINLY. [INAUDIBLE] OKAY. ALL RIGHT. SO WE'LL REVIEW THOSE. WE HAVE TWO SETS OF MINUTES THIS COMING MONTH TO REVIEW. OKAY. ALL RIGHT. SO MOVING DOWN TO PUBLIC COMMENT, PERIOD, ITEM NUMBER THREE. [III. PUBLIC COMMENT PERIOD] SO AT THIS TIME, I WILL OPEN PUBLIC COMMENT PERIOD. ANYONE LIKE TO SPEAK? YOU COME FORWARD AND PLEASE GIVE YOU A NAME AND ADDRESS FOR THE RECORD, PLEASE. MY NAME IS [INAUDIBLE] AND I LIVE [INAUDIBLE], AND I'M HERE TONIGHT ON BEHALF OF THE INDUSTRIAL DEVELOPMENT AUTHORITY. YOU PROBABLY ALREADY KNOW THIS, BUT YESTERDAY AT OUR MEETING, WE PASSED THE PROPER PAPERWORK. IT WAS UNANIMOUS TO MOVE ON WITH THIS $65 MILLION BOND SALE. SO THAT PRTI PROCESS IS ROLLING. I JUST THOUGHT YOU MIGHT LIKE TO KNOW. THAT'S GREAT NEWS. THANK YOU, MR. [INAUDIBLE]. ANYONE ELSE ? LAST CALL. IF NOT, I'M CLOSE TO PUBLIC COMMENT, PERIOD. OKAY. NOW WE'LL GO TO ITEM NUMBER FOUR, UNFINISHED BUSINESS AND WE'RE GOING TO IF YOU WANT TO, WE'LL JUST GO WITH THE COMPREHENSIVE PLAN UPDATE. [IV. UNFINISHED BUSINESS] MS. LEWIS PROVIDED SOME COMMENTS AND SOME THINGS FOR CONSIDERATION IN OUR PACKETS. AND MS. LEWIS, I WILL LET YOU PROCEED, IF YOU WILL. I SEE YOU'VE GOT A MAP, LOOKING FORWARD TO LOOKING AT THAT. YEP, IT'S THE SAME ONE THAT YOU HAD BOTH IN 11 BY 17 AND THEN. THEY'RE VERY NICE, BY THE WAY. YES, YES. OUR [INAUDIBLE] GUY DID A GOOD JOB. SO NOW IT'S TIME TO LOOK AT THE LAND USE CHAPTER. YOU CAN SEE THAT OVER THE NEXT 30 YEARS, THE WELDON COOPER CENTER EXPECTS THAT THE COUNTY'S POPULATION IS GOING TO STAY ABOUT THE SAME. IN 2020, IT WAS 17,996 AND 2050 WILL BE 17,429. THESE ARE JUST FORECASTS, OF COURSE. WELL, WHILE SUFFOLK IS GOING TO GROW AND ISLE OF WIGHT IS GOING TO GROW, SOUTHAMPTON COUNTY IS ABOUT GOING TO STAY THE SAME. [00:05:09] AND THEN AS YOU GO A LITTLE FURTHER WEST, THE POPULATIONS ARE GOING TO DECREASE. YOU CAN EXPECT THAT THAT JUST AS THE POPULATION IS MOVING INTO SUFFOLK AND ISLE OF WIGHT, IT'LL CONTINUE TO MOVE WEST INTO SOUTHAMPTON COUNTY. SO IT'S SOMETHING FOR FOR SOUTHAMPTON COUNTY TO CONSIDER. YOU MIGHT WANT TO LOOK AT HOW YOU WANT SOUTHAMPTON COUNTY TO DEVELOP. I HAD SOME QUESTIONS HERE THAT YOU MIGHT WANT TO CONSIDER. DO YOU EXPECT DEVELOPMENT TO USE WELL AND SEPTIC? DO YOU WANT TO PERMIT CONTINUED USE OF WELL AND SEPTIC SYSTEMS AS POPULATION GETS MORE DENSE? YOU CAN THE R1 ZONING DESIGNATION PERMITS LOTS AS SMALL AS 30,000 SQUARE FEET. USING WELL AND SEPTIC AS SMALL AS 20,000 FEET. IF YOU HAVE EITHER PUBLIC WATER OR PUBLIC SEWER, DO YOU WANT TO CONTINUE TO ENCOURAGE FURTHER USE OF SEPTIC SYSTEMS? AND PRIVATE WELLS AS THEY ARE BOTH DIFFICULT ON THE ENVIRONMENT. DO YOU WANT TO PERMIT MORE MEDIUM DENSITY RESIDENTIAL DEVELOPMENT? THE COUNTY'S POPULATION IS STAYING STEADY OR NOT INCREASING, BUT IT'S AGING. SO THERE ARE PEOPLE AS THEY AGE THAT MAY WANT TO STAY IN SOUTHAMPTON COUNTY BUT DON'T WANT TO CONTINUE TO MOW A TEN ACRE LOT. SO PERHAPS YOU WANT TO CONSIDER SOME MORE PLACES FOR MEDIUM DENSITY RESIDENTIAL SORT OF LIKE THE VILLAGE AT WOODS EDGE. THAT WOULD PROVIDE HOUSING FOR PEOPLE WHO WANT TO STAY NEAR THEIR FAMILY BUT DON'T ESPECIALLY WANT TO TAKE CARE OF A BIG LOT. DO YOU WANT TO PERMIT EVEN HIGHER DENSITY THAN EIGHT UNITS AN ACRE IN PLACES THAT HAVE BOTH PUBLIC WATER AND SEWER? YOU CAN SEE ON YOU COULD SEE ON YOUR BIG MAP. AND IT'S A PRETTY COOL POINTER. I CAN. OKAY. RIGHT ACROSS THE STREET FROM THE FOOD LION. BEHIND THE GAS STATION THERE AND SORT OF BEHIND WHERE MR. RANDALL'S OFFICES ARE. THERE'S AN AREA THAT'S IN PINK RIGHT THERE ON THE MAP. THAT IS DESIGNATED AS MEDIUM DENSITY RESIDENTIAL, WHICH PERMITS UP TO EIGHT UNITS AN ACRE. THAT'S ABOUT 40 ACRES. TO PUT IN A NEIGHBORHOOD SORT OF LIKE THE VILLAGE AT WOODS EDGE WOULD BE A VERY CONVENIENT PLACE FOR PEOPLE TO LIVE. IT'S ACROSS THE STREET FROM THE GROCERY STORE. THERE'S A BANK, THERE'S AN ATTORNEY. MAYBE THEY CAN GET BY WITH ONLY ONE CAR OR NO CARS. BUT THINK OF INTERSECTIONS LIKE THAT AND AREAS LIKE THAT THROUGHOUT THE COUNTY THAT PERHAPS A HIGHER DENSITY OF A LITTLE HIGHER DENSITY OF RESIDENTS [INAUDIBLE] THAT PINK RIGHT THERE. IT'S RIGHT HERE. YEAH, IT'S UP STORY STATION ROAD. IS THAT TO THE RIGHT? RIGHT BEHIND YOUR PROPERTY. BEHIND, BEHIND YOUR OFFICE. THAT FIELD. YEAH. OKAY. [INAUDIBLE] OH, I'M AT THE WRONG INTERSECTION. DEVELOPMENTS LIKE THAT ALONG TRANSPORTATION CORRIDORS AND THEN AREAS WHERE WATER AND SEWER ARE AVAILABLE, IS IS THAT A WAY THAT SOUTHAMPTON COUNTY MAY WANT TO GROW? YOU LOOK UP WHERE THE SCHOOL IS UP 35, UP I-4 ROAD [INAUDIBLE]. DO YOU MAYBE WANT TO PERMIT A LITTLE HIGHER DENSITY LIKE RATHER THAN AGRICULTURAL, MAYBE 1 TO 3 UNITS AN ACRE, WHICH WOULD BE SINGLE FAMILY HOMES ON 20, 30, 40,000 SQUARE FOOT LOTS NEAR AN ELEMENTARY SCHOOL. SO NOT EVERYBODY HAS TO RIDE THE BUS TO GET TO SCHOOL. THERE MIGHT BE AREAS THROUGHOUT SOUTHAMPTON COUNTY THAT THAT A LITTLE BIT HIGHER DENSITY MAY ENCOURAGE THE KIND OF DEVELOPMENT THAT IS POSITIVE FOR SOUTHAMPTON COUNTY WHEN YOU HAVE A SCHOOL OF 400 KIDS AND 375 OF THEM HAVE TO RIDE A SCHOOL BUS TO GET THERE. THAT'S AN EXPENSIVE WAY TO PROVIDE PUBLIC EDUCATION. AND IF YOU HAVE KIDS OF DIFFERENT AGES AND THEY GO TO ELEMENTARY, MIDDLE AND HIGH SCHOOL, THAT MEANS. [00:10:05] THE LONG RURAL ROADS IN SOUTHAMPTON COUNTY. THREE SCHOOL BUSSES GO DOWN EVERY MORNING AND THREE SCHOOL BUSSES GO DOWN EVERY AFTERNOON AND PERHAPS ENCOURAGING. YOU KNOW, ONE ACRE LOTS IN THE AREA NEAR ELEMENTARY SCHOOLS WOULD HELP SOME OF THOSE GET SOME OF THOSE KIDS AT SCHOOL, NOT HAVE TO RIDE A BUS. WHEN YOU LOOK AT THE THAT THE I-4 AREA YOU SEE UP IN THE NORTHWEST PART OF I-4, THERE'S ALREADY AN INDUSTRIAL PLANT DESIGNATION AND THEN ON THE SOUTH SIDE OF 460, BETWEEN 460 AND THE RAILROAD TRACK. THERE'S AN INDUSTRIAL DESIGNATION AS WELL, BUT PERHAPS YOU WANT TO ENCOURAGE COMMERCIAL OR INDUSTRIAL ON THE NORTH SIDE 460 AND ON THE OTHER SIDE OF 460 LEADING OVER TO ISLE OF WIGHT. THAT'S A BUSY ROAD. I DON'T KNOW. THERE ARE HOUSES THERE NOW. I DON'T KNOW THAT THAT'S ESPECIALLY SUSTAINABLE TO HAVE MORE HOUSES BUILT AND MORE DRIVEWAYS PULLING OUT ONTO 460 EVERY COUPLE OF HUNDRED FEET. ESPECIALLY IF. IF. THERE'S THAT BIG DEVELOPMENT IN SUFFOLK THAT'S PLANNED. THAT THAT MAY NOT BE A PLACE WHERE PEOPLE WANT TO LIVE OR YOU WANT TO ENCOURAGE THAT KIND OF DEVELOPMENT. YOU MIGHT WANT TO ENCOURAGE COMMERCIAL OR INDUSTRIAL DEVELOPMENT WITH ONE DRIVEWAY SERVING A NUMBER OF ACRES. CAN I ASK A QUESTION? SURE. I WAS READING A COMMERCIAL APPRAISAL TODAY AND IT WAS A COMMERCIAL APPRAISAL. BUT A LOT OF THESE COMMERCIAL APPRAISALS TALK ABOUT HOUSING AND IT HAD ALL THE STATISTICS IN IT OF RESIDENTIAL DEVELOPMENT. AND I WAS ABSOLUTELY SHOCKED AT THE RESIDENTIAL DEVELOPMENT AND IT WAS BROKEN INTO QUARTER. SO I GUESS THE SUMMER WAS A HUGE SPIKE, ALMOST TRIPLED. AND WHAT THEY CLASSIFIED IS RURAL RESIDENTIAL DEVELOPMENT. AND OBVIOUSLY I KNOW OF QUITE A FEW IN HOLLAND AROUND THE THE LAKES, DOWN WEAVERVILLE BOULEVARD THAT THAT AREA. BUT THERE WAS A HUGE SPIKE IN THE WHALEY VILLE AREA AND THE HOLLAND AREA IN SUFFOLK, AND THE REPORT TALKED ABOUT LACK OF RESIDENTIAL HOUSING. AND IT WAS A SPIKE THAT WAS JUST IT WAS A HUGE AMOUNT. SOME OF IT WAS 300%. AND IT WAS SHOWING AN OLIVE WHITE AND SUFFOLK, WHICH KIND OF SHOCKED ME. AND I KNOW THAT THERE'S A LOT OF PLATS THAT ARE GOING IN FOR RESIDENTIAL DEVELOPMENT, AND WE ALL KNOW THE COST OF THAT, WHICH IS USUALLY A NEGATIVE TO THE LOCALITY AND IN MOST CASES, NOT ALL. BUT IT IT PROJECTED TO ME VERY CLEARLY THAT IF THERE'S A HOUSING SHORTAGE IN OUR COUNTIES THAT ARE SURROUNDING US AND THEY'RE SPIKING AND DEVELOPMENT, I DON'T THINK IT WOULD IMPACT SOUTHAMPTON AS MUCH. BUT HOW DO WE PROTECT BECAUSE BECAUSE WE KNOW THE PHILOSOPHY OF THE BOARD OVERALL IS TO NOT HAVE THE DENSITY, ETC.. BUT IT LOOKS LIKE IN HOLLAND THAT THAT EVERY LOT THAT WENT FOR SALE WAS SELLING QUICKLY AND BEING DEVELOPED QUICKLY. DO YOU HAVE SOME? AND IT LOOKS LIKE THIS WAS A NATIONAL DEAL DURING THE QUARTER. AND NOW THINGS, I GUESS ARE SLOWING DOWN BECAUSE OF THE MORTGAGE RATES AND THE ECONOMY, ETC.. BUT IF YOU WENT TO A CONFERENCE OR SOMETHING THAT SOME OF THESE RURAL LOCALITIES OF SOME THINGS THAT THEY ARE DOING TO HELP MANAGE SOME OF THE DEVELOPMENT BECAUSE BECAUSE OBVIOUSLY THERE'S GOOD STORIES AND THERE'S BAD STORIES OF THIS TYPE OF DEVELOPMENT. BUT IT SURE LOOKS TO ME AS IF IF THERE'S A HOUSING SHORTAGE ALL AROUND US, THAT THIS IS SOMETHING THAT WE'RE GOING TO BE DEALING WITH IN THE NEXT 5 TO 10 YEARS. YES. I MEAN, ARE YOU SEEING THIS THIS WAVE? IT LOOKS LIKE THE NUMBER OF BUILDING PERMITS ARE OFFICES IS GRANTING EACH THIS YEAR WILL BE 50% HIGHER THAN LAST YEAR. SOUTHAMPTON COUNTY FOR YEARS AND YEARS ISSUED 60 TO 70 BUILDING PERMITS A YEAR. [00:15:01] AND THIS YEAR WE WILL EASILY HAVE OVER 100, 120, PERHAPS, AND THAT'S NEW HOUSES. SO IT'S GROWING. AND THERE'S. SOUTHAMPTON COUNTY WANTS TO RETAIN ITS RURAL AND AGRICULTURAL FLAVOR. BUT STRINGING HOUSES ALONG RURAL ROADS ISN'T DOING THAT. NO. AND THAT SEEMS TO BE WHAT IS HAPPENING RIGHT NOW IN SUFFOLK TO A POINT THAT THEY NEVER EXPECTED. SO WHAT YOU MAY WANT TO CONSIDER IS AREAS, AREAS WITH HIGHER DENSITY. IF YOU CAN MAKE HIGHER DENSITY, WHICH IS IN SOUTHAMPTON COUNTY, ONE ACRE LOTS, NOT LIKE 8,500 SQUARE FOOT LOTS IN THE CITIES EAST OF HERE, BUT ONE ACRE LOTS IN CERTAIN AREAS THAT CAN BE SERVED BY ROADS AND PERHAPS WATER AND SEWER. THEN YOU PROVIDE AN AREA FOR HOUSING AND YOU DON'T SACRIFICE THOSE LONG RURAL ROADS. MR. WILLIAMS, WHO HAD THE WANTED TO HAVE THE PHEASANT HUNTING PROPERTY, HE SUBMITTED A REQUEST. AND THIS IS THE TIME THAT YOU CONSIDER REQUESTS HIS PROPERTY THAT THAT HE HAD THE PHEASANT HUNTING ACROSS THE STREET FROM THE HIGH SCHOOL. COUPLE YEARS AGO, A NUMBER OF YEARS AGO, HE HAD THREE AND A HALF ACRES CHANGED TO COMMERCIAL. HE WOULD LIKE TO ADD SOME MORE COMMERCIAL ALONG RIDLEY ROAD. BUT THE REMAINDER OF THAT 100 AND MAYBE IT WOULD BE ABOUT 120 ACRES. HE WOULD LIKE A LOW DENSITY RESIDENTIAL DESIGNATION, WHICH WOULD PERMIT DEVELOPMENT ON 30,000 SQUARE FOOT LOTS, 40,000 SQUARE FOOT LOTS ON 120 ACRES. BY THE TIME YOU TAKE OUT THE RIGHTS OF WAY AND STORMWATER AND BUFFERS, IF YOU HAD A VERY EASY LOT TO DESIGN, MAYBE YOU COULD GET 60 HOUSES IN THERE. THEY WOULD BE TUCKED AWAY. THEY WOULD BE COMPARABLE TO THE HOUSES THAT ARE LINING RIDLEY ROAD THEY'RE ACROSS THE STREET FROM TWO SCHOOLS. THERE'S A POSSIBILITY THAT WATER AND SEWER COULD SERVE THOSE PROPERTIES. THAT'S THE KIND OF DEVELOPMENT THAT YOU ENCOURAGE WHEN YOU WANT TO RETAIN AGRICULTURE FOR THE LARGER PART OF YOUR COMMUNITY. YOU ENCOURAGE IT IN AREAS LIKE [INAUDIBLE] AT LEAST A LITTLE COMMUNITY THERE, EMPTY LOTS THERE. YOU ENCOURAGE DEVELOPMENT AND NODES RATHER THAN STRUNG ALONG RURAL ROADS. YOU KNOW, SUFFOLK HAS A VERY PICTURE OF POOR PLANNING. I CONCUR. YEAH. SUFFOLK IS A DISASTER. [INAUDIBLE] BUT AND THE REASON AND I'LL COMMENT. THE REASON I SAY THAT IS AND I APPRECIATE YOUR COMMENTS AS WELL, BECAUSE SUFFOLK, YOU KNOW, BEFORE IT WAS A CITY, IT WAS A VERY RURAL [INAUDIBLE] COUNTY. AND OF COURSE, THEY THEY TOOK A LOT OF CITY ATTRIBUTES TRYING TO GET THINGS THAT ADAPT TO THE CORE OF THE OLD CITY OF SUFFOLK TO EXPAND TO THE COUNTRYSIDE. BUT THE THING ABOUT IT IS THE HIGHWAY SYSTEM. THE ROAD SYSTEM. DOESN'T JIVE WITH ALL THE PEOPLE AND ALL THE SCHOOL BUS STOPS AND ALL THE MAILBOXES. AND I'M THINKING I'M TALKING ABOUT THE SOUTHERN PART OF SUFFOLK [INAUDIBLE] CYPRESS CHAPEL, THAT AREA. IT'S A LOT OF THAT SOUTHERN BORDER SOUTH OF HOLLAND AND SUCH A LOT OF BEAUTIFUL HOMES. DON'T GET ME WRONG, BEAUTIFUL HOUSES. BUT, UM, IT'S JUST, IT'S JUST TO ME, IT'S DESTROYING THE ESTHETICS OF THE RURAL. AND, AND I'VE HEARD SOME OF THE [INAUDIBLE] I MEAN, THEY'RE HAVING A DIFFICULT TIME JUST HARVESTING TIMBER BECAUSE OF IT'S SO MUCH DEVELOPMENT ON THOSE CROOKED [INAUDIBLE] IT'S JUST LIKE OUR ROADS. IT'S CROOKED AND TURNS AND 90 DEGREE TURNS, WHATEVER. SO, YOU KNOW, WE WE HAVE A CHANCE. WE HAVE A CHANCE TO TO, TO TO GO A DIFFERENT ROUTE. AND I THINK ABOUT IT AND I'M PROBABLY THE OLDEST ONE IN HERE, I RECKON. ANYWAY, I THINK ABOUT CHESAPEAKE AND THE WHAT THEY CALL THE GREENBRIER AREA, WHICH THAT WAS NAMED AFTER THE OUTDOOR NURSERY. I THINK IT'S A GREEN IT'S CALLED GREENBRIER MALL AND SHOPPING CENTER AREA OR WHATEVER NAME. BUT THAT WAS ALL RURAL. [00:20:01] THAT WAS JUST WHEN THEY BUILT 64 WHEN I WAS INTO MY YOUNGER DAYS AND I'VE SEEN ALL THAT DEVELOP UP. BUT I THINK CHESAPEAKE AND PLEASE CORRECT ME IF ANYBODY KNOWS, WASN'T THAT LIKE A PLANNED COMMUNITY? I MEAN, WHEN THEY STARTED MAKING THE ROADS AND THE STREETS, A LOT OF THE SQUARE CORNERS, YOU KNOW, AND BLOCKS AND ANYBODY REMEMBER ANYBODY COMING ON THAT WASN'T THAT A LOT OF THAT PRE PLANNED IS THE HEIGHT OF THE ROADS WERE LAID TO GET DOWN [INAUDIBLE]. WELL I REMEMBER THE TERM THE GREEN LINE EVERYBODY HEARD OF THAT AND THE GREEN LINE KEPT GETTING EXPANDED. [INAUDIBLE] BUT I GUESS WHAT I'M TRYING TO SAY IS THAT BUT YOU THEY HAD A CHANCE TO DEAL WITH THAT EXTRA GROWTH COLLECT. SO THEY PUT NEW STREETS, THEY PUT UTILITIES IN AND THAT TYPE OF THING. [INAUDIBLE] ON THAT AND WE HAVE A CHANCE TO DO THAT NOW TO LOCATE THESE AREAS SO THAT BACK THERE WHEN WAS ME OH, WOW. I LIVED BACK IN THE WE AREAS THAT BECAME [INAUDIBLE] YOU KNOW, IT'S JUST GOING TO BE A LONG TIME FOR THAT COMES ABOUT BUT AT THE SAME TIME WE CAN MAKE SOMETHING REALLY NICE THESE PROJECTED AREAS. NOW, I HADN'T THOUGHT ABOUT THE SCHOOL, YOU KNOW THAT. [INAUDIBLE] SCHOOL IS KIND OF SITTING OUT TO ITSELF. NOT TO SAY I DON'T KNOW WHO THE LANDOWNERS ARE OR WHO FARMS UP THERE OR WHATEVER. BUT, YOU KNOW, YOU THINK ABOUT A SCHOOL BEING IN A NEIGHBORHOOD TYPE SETTING, WHO KNOWS OF OR MAY EXPAND OUT TO THAT AREA? WHO KNOWS? AND [INAUDIBLE] ROAD ISN'T SO BUSY THAT WITH SIDEWALKS, KIDS COULDN'T WALK TO SCHOOL. YOU LOOK AT CAPRON ELEMENTARY SCHOOL, NO ONE'S GOING TO BE ABLE TO WALK TO CAPRON ELEMENTARY SCHOOL. THAT ROAD IS JUST TOO BUSY AND TOO WIDE. AND NO MATTER WHERE YOUR HOUSE IS, YOU CAN'T WALK TO CAPRONELEMENTARY SCHOOL. BUT THE ONE [INAUDIBLE] WITH THE NEIGHBORHOOD PERHAPS YOU COULD. YEAH, BUT DON'T YOU THINK IN SUFFOLK. AND I'VE BEEN PRACTICING LAW LONG ENOUGH. IT'S JUST. MY PERCEPTION IS THAT THEY RESISTED THE LARGER HOUSING PRODUCT PROJECTS. WHICH IN MY MY OPINION AND I COULD BE WRONG. IT FORCED THE DEVELOPMENT ALONG THE COUNTRY ROADS AND NOW IT SHIFTED WHERE EVERY SINGLE PLAT IS APPROVED AND THE DEVELOPMENT IS JUST BLOWN UP. AND THEN PEOPLE COME FOR THE CHEAP, THE CHEAPER HOUSING. UM. SO, I GUESS. AND IN SUFFOLK AND I REMEMBER HUNTING, GOING TO GATES COUNTY RIGHT OVER THE LINE AT MY FAMILY FARM. SUFFOLK WAS MUCH MORE RURAL 30 YEARS AGO. AND IT'S CHANGED COMPLETELY AND IT'S CHANGED SIGNIFICANTLY IN THE PAST TEN YEARS. AND I THINK IT'S GOING TO CONTINUE, ESPECIALLY THAT CAROLINA ROAD CORRIDOR RIGHT BY THE AIRPORT WHERE THERE IS. I MEAN, I DON'T KNOW HOW MANY I WOULD SAY 1,200 HOUSES THAT PLATS HAVE BEEN APPROVED. I GUESS IS KIND OF LIKE WHEN WE STARTED SOLAR PANELS. I WAS UNSURE OF IT. HOW DO YOU MANAGE THAT CORRECTLY TO AVOID THOSE PROBLEMS? AND THEN YOU GO TO ANOTHER EXTREME. YOU GO TO GATES COUNTY, YOU KNOW WHERE THEY DID THE CUTS AND STACK THE MODELERS IN. ONCE YOU GET THAT, YOU KNOW, WE'RE NOT GOING TO BE ABLE TO REMEDIATE LIKE SOLAR PANELS AND YOU'RE GOING TO HAVE PROBLEMS WITH CRIME, ETC.. AND I'M SURE THE SHERIFF, YOU KNOW, HAS SAID, YOU KNOW, SO HOUSING DEALS WITH LAW ENFORCEMENT. IT DEALS WITH LAND USE, IT DEALS WITH SCHOOL SYSTEM. I'M KIND OF ASKING THE RHETORICAL QUESTION BECAUSE THE NUMBERS KIND OF SHOCKED ME. IF IT'S THERE, IT'S GOING TO BE HERE EVENTUALLY. AND, YOU KNOW, I YOU KNOW, WE CAN'T SAY WE DON'T WANT IT AND THEN NOT PLAN FOR IT. WELL, THEY'RE GOING TO MAKE A PLAN. AND THEN, LIKE GATES COUNTY HAPPENED, YOU KNOW, THEY WERE WAY BEHIND. AND THEN THE DEVELOPERS TOOK ADVANTAGE OF THE ARCHAIC CODE. AND YOU KNOW, OUR CODE IS NOT THE MOST UP TO DATE, BUT WE HAVE SOME REALLY GOOD THINGS. BUT WE NEED BUT BUT WE COULD WE COULD UPDATE SOME OTHER THINGS. [00:25:02] AND WE'VE WE'VE STARTED DOING THAT. SO I'M NOT BEING OVERLY CRITICAL. I'M JUST GIVEING THE THE BAD SO WE CAN GET TO THE GOOD. BUT I THINK WITH THE THE THE HOUSING SHORTAGE, YOU KNOW, PEOPLE IN THE NEXT 30 TO 50 YEARS ARE CERTAINLY GOING TO BE LOOKING TO MOVE THIS DIRECTION. I MEAN, BECAUSE NORTHERN SUFFOLK IS ABOUT I MEAN, WHO WOULD HAVE THOUGHT NORTHERN SUFFOLK 20 YEARS AGO WOULD BE I MEAN, THEY'RE STACKED WITH WITH CONDOS, TOWNHOUSES, EVEN EVEN IN OLIVE WHITE, HIGH END STUFF, BIG MONEY DEVELOPMENT. I'M NOT GOING THAT FAR, BUT I THINK THAT THE RESIDENTIAL DEVELOPMENT, LIKE HOLLAND, IS AT OUR DOORSTEP AND WE OUGHT TO AT LEAST START DISCUSSING WAYS. AND I GOT I DIDN'T KNOW THE 58 BEHIND MY OFFICE WAS THE YOU KNOW THE HOUSING IS MAYBE ADD ONE MORE AND IN SOME AREA YOU KNOW IT JUMPS OUT AT ME ALONG THE FRANKLIN BORDER THAT ONE PIECE THAT WE TALKED ABOUT YEARS AGO, I THINK IT'S ZONED FOR COMMERCIAL. MR. FOSSELLA. YES. MR. FOSSELLA'S PROPERTY, YOU KNOW, THAT WENT FROM HOUSING AND THEN THE HOUSING MARKET FAILED AND NOTHING'S THERE NOW. I MEAN, THAT SEEMED LIKE A REALLY GOOD LOCATION FOR HOUSING FROM MY PERSPECTIVE IS IT'S RIGHT THERE. AND SOME PEOPLE OPPOSE THE COMMERCIAL. SOME PEOPLE OPPOSED THE HOUSING WILL. THERE'S MAIN ROADS THERE, YOU KNOW, WATER AND SEWER THERE. THERE'S YEAH, THERE'S WATER AND THE WATER AND SEWER IS BIG FROM A COST PERSPECTIVE, FROM THE SCHOOL PERSPECTIVE, ETC. WHERE DO WE PUT THIS? SO MAYBE WE NEED TO THINK ABOUT ANOTHER, YOU KNOW, I DON'T KNOW THE NUMBERS, BUT MAYBE ANOTHER AREA SOMEWHERE OBVIOUSLY THAT'S NOT IMPACTING AGRICULTURE. IF YOU IF YOU LOOK AT THE EUROPEAN MODEL, WE LEARN FROM THAT, NUMBER ONE, SOLAR PANELS, SOLAR FARMS. WE HAVEN'T TAKEN OUR TO TALK ABOUT SOLAR PANELS. OKAY. BUT IF YOU GO TO EUROPE AND YOU'RE A FARMER, YOU HAVE ABOUT A HALF ACRE LAND IN THE IN THE VILLAGE. YOU GO OUT TO YOUR FARM EVERY DAY. EVERYBODY LIVES IN THE VILLAGE. SMALL, HIGH DENSITY HOUSING. THAT'S HOW THEY SOLVED THEIRS. THAT'S HOW THE ORIGINAL PLAN FOR SAVANNAH WAS TOO. I SHOWED THAT TO Y'ALL YEARS AGO, BUT THE ORIGINAL PLAN FOR SAVANNAH WAS THAT PEOPLE LIVED IN TOWN AND THEY WENT OUT TO THE FARM. BUT MR. RANDALL'S POINT OF FINDING PLACES FOR HIGHER DENSITY RESIDENTIAL, WHEN YOU LOOK AT THE PINES OF [INAUDIBLE], IT'S JUST OUTSIDE THE TOWN OF [INAUDIBLE]. IT DOESN'T YOU DON'T SEE IT FROM THE ROAD, YOU KNOW, YOU DON'T SEE STRINGS OF HOUSES ALONG RURAL ROADS UP THERE. ISN'T THAT WHAT WE'RE TRYING TO AVOID, THOUGH, IS THE STRINGS OF HOUSES, RIGHT? I MEAN. RIGHT. WELL, THAT AND [INAUDIBLE] YOU'RE TRYING TO UTILIZE THE LANDMASS MOST EFFICIENTLY POSSIBLE. ONE OF THE ONE OF MY BIGGEST CONCERNS AND I'M SORRY I GOT TO MENTION SOLAR ONE MORE TIME, BUT THE SOLAR PROJECT IS SO MUCH WASTED. IT'S GOOD FOR NOTHING. YOU CAN'T. IT'S NOT GOOD FOR AGRICULTURE. YOU CAN'T BUILD A HOUSE ON THE RESIDUAL. THOSE BUFFERED AREAS ARE THE PLACES THAT THAT NEXT RACK WOULDN'T FIT. AND I'M TALKING ABOUT DESIGNED OF ARRAYS. IT'S JUST SO MUCH TO ME. IT'S JUST SO MUCH WASTED AREA. AND I. I AGREE. ALL THEY'RE DOING IS CUTTING THE GRASS ON IT. I DROVE BY THE LIONS CLUB EVENT, AND I DROVE BY, AND I LOOKED AT ALL THE BUFFER THAT THEY HAD OUT THERE OR LACK OF I MEAN, IT WAS RIDICULOUS WHAT WAS PROMISED AND WHAT'S THERE. IT LOOKS BLEAK. BUT SOME OF THE PROPERTIES YOU MENTIONED, THE AIRPORT AND GOING BACK TO THE WHITE MARK, IT'S SOME IT'S SOME LIKE I SAID, I CALL IT PIANO PEAK DEVELOPMENT. BUT SOMETIMES THERE'S A THERE'S A BLANK SPOT. AND I DON'T KNOW IF THERE'S ENOUGH ROOM FOR ANOTHER LOT. IT LOOKS LIKE A MAYBE A HALF A LOT. BUT THEN THE FARMER, HE'S TRYING TO PUT, YOU KNOW, TWO DOZEN ROWS OF CORN. AND IT'S JUST RIDICULOUS HOW THEY IT SHOULD HAVE BEEN REPETITIVE OR SOME SOME CONSISTENCY TO IT. BUT THE ROWS ARE LIKE THIS. HOW DO YOU DO THAT WHEN THE ROWS ARE JUST ZIGZAG AND ALL RIGHT. SO I THINK THIS IS VERY GOOD, YOU KNOW, DISCUSSION. BUT HOW CAN WE DO IT TO BEST UTILIZE THAT THOSE SPACES, YOU KNOW, TO GO AHEAD AND LAY OUT THE TO THE SIDEWALKS AND UTILITIES [00:30:06] MAKE MAKE IT A SUBURBIA A CHESAPEAKE TYPE BECAUSE I REALLY THINK CHESAPEAKE FOR THE MOST PART WAS SO CALLED PLANNED. LIKE OUR GROUP, THE PLANNING GROUP OF THAT CITY, BECAUSE YOU LOOK AT THE STREETS, YOU SEE HOW THE STREETS AND BLOCKS AND THINGS AND AND WE JUST WE CAN'T WE CAN'T DO THAT IN THE COUNTY OUT OF WHITE. COULDN'T DO IT SUFFOLK CAN'T DO IT BECAUSE YOU'RE TRYING TO TAKE A RURAL ROAD AND MAKE THAT FUNCTIONAL. BUT IF YOU'RE GOING TO PUT A LOT OF YOU CAN PUT A SUBDIVISION, IT'S KIND OF IT'S GOT TO BE LIKE IT'S GOT TO BE SOME TYPE OF BEING LAID OUT, MAPPED OUT OR WHATEVER TO TO BEST UTILIZE THE LAND MASS. WE HAVE A CLUSTER DIVISION ON OUR AND OUR RESIDENTIAL RIGHT. WE DO. BUT YOU PUT IN LIKE 30 ACRES, HOUSES, HIGH DENSITY AND 70 OF OAKLAND. RIGHT, MS. LEWIS? IT'S NEVER BEEN USED. I THINK IT'S BEEN USED ONE TIME IN OUR LIFE I KNOW. BUT THE COUNTY USED TO HAVE A PLANNED DEVELOPMENT DISTRICT THAT ENCOURAGED THAT, BUT IT HASN'T BEEN IN THE ORDINANCE IN A NUMBER OF YEARS. WELL, THE CLUSTER OF EIGHT AND THAT'S THE THIRD THAT'S A THIRD CHOICE OUT OF THREE. THAT'S RIGHT. AND THAT WAS A HUGE STEP YEARS AGO TO COME UP WITH THAT THAT PART OF THE ORDINANCE. BUT I WOULD LIKE YOU KNOW, I WOULD LIKE TO SEE ALL OF THE TOWNSHIPS. YOU KNOW, [INAUDIBLE] ALL OF THEM. SOME KIND OF WAY TO REVITALIZE. AND I KNOW WE DON'T DO THE TOWNS, BUT THE OUTSKIRTS IS JUST LIKE THE. I'M GONNA GO BACK TO THAT WORD SOLAR THING AGAIN. WE DIDN'T WANT THEM TO CLOSE TO THE TOWN, BUT AT THE SAME TIME, IF WE CAN ENCOURAGE THE AREAS AROUND THE TOWN RIGHT TO ENHANCE BECAUSE I KNOW IN NEWSOMS RIGHT NOW I TALKED TO THE MAYOR A FEW WEEKS BACK. WE WANT TO GET SOMETHING WE CAN'T BUY A GALLON OF GAS IN NEWSOMS RIGHT NOW. THEY DON'T HAVE A GAS PUMP. AND WE GOT TO MEET [INAUDIBLE], WHICH IS THE BUTCHER BLOCK CHANGE NAME, BY THE WAY. OWNERSHIP. BUT ANYWAY, NICE LITTLE STORE THERE. BUT WE'RE JEALOUS. WE DON'T HAVE A FAMILY. FAMILY DOLLAR THINKS THE FAMILY DOLLAR WE'RE TRYING TO GET. SO WE WANT TO BRING YOU GOT TO HAVE PEOPLE WE'VE GOT WE'VE GOT A SCHOOL. WE'VE GOT A NICE SCHOOL IN NEWSOMS. RIGHT. AND IT'S A NICE LITTLE SETTLEMENT, BUT NO COMMERCIAL. VERY LITTLE COMMERCIAL BUSINESSES THERE, BUT. WE JUST THAT BE A GREAT LITTLE COMMUNITY. YOU KNOW, A LITTLE TOWN AGAIN. IT USED TO BE. THAT'S KIND OF FADED AWAY, I GUESS. LISTENING TO THE CONVERSATION, WE ARE I THINK WE'RE CONCERNED ABOUT THE ESTHETICS OF THE OF THE COUNTY. WE'RE CONCERNED ABOUT THE GROWTH OF THE COUNTY AND TRYING TO CHANNEL THE GROWTH WHERE WE THINK NEEDS TO GO. AND I THINK ABOUT THE ESTHETICS PART OF IT AND WHETHER THE BUFFER OR WHAT IT IS. AND I THINK ABOUT COMMUNITIES THAT YOU RIDE THROUGH. Y'ALL HAVE TALKED ABOUT COMMUNITIES THAT YOU'VE RIDDEN THROUGH THAT YOU DON'T LIKE THE LOOK OF IT. THINK ABOUT THE COMMUNITIES THAT YOU RIDE THROUGH THAT YOU DO LIKE ABOUT IT. I THINK ABOUT WILLIAMSBURG. IF I THINK ABOUT WAKE FOREST AND AND I GUESS I WOULD LIKE TO EXPLORE THE TOOLS IN THEIR TOOLBOX THAT THEY'RE USING TO ENCOURAGE THAT KIND OF DEVELOPMENT. LOOK HOW MANY FARMS ARE THERE IN WILLIAMSBURG. NONE. [INAUDIBLE] BUT YET YOU RIDE THROUGH WAY THE CITY OF WILLIAMSBURG. I AGREE WITH THAT. BUT YOU THINK, OKAY, WELL, THIS IS A COOL PLACE. THIS IS A COOL PLACE. AND IT'S MAINLY BECAUSE OF THE ESTHETICS THAT WHEN YOU RIDE DOWN THE ROAD, YOU DON'T SEE ALL THE HOUSES IN THE OPEN FIELD. SO YOU DON'T SEE THE SOLAR PANELS, YOU SEE TREES. AND CAN THAT BE A CAN CAN WE HAVE A TOOL IN OUR TOOLBOX SO THAT OUR COUNTY IS DEVELOPS SIMILAR TO THAT. THAT'S JUST MY THOUGHT. AND JUST JUST TAG ON THAT. I AGREE. I AGREE ON WHAT YOU'RE SAYING. I STILL THINK MARY [INAUDIBLE] THE AG. AG AND FORESTRY IS DRIVES OUR ECONOMY INTO COUNTY. SO WE WE HAD TO BE IT'S NOT LIKE WE'RE TRYING TO CONVERT THE WHOLE COUNTY. [00:35:04] CORRECT. BUT WE'RE TRYING TO LOCATE THOSE AREAS THAT WE HAVE A VERY DESIRABLE PLACE. SOMEONE WANTS TO BUILD A HOME AND ENJOY ALL THE UTILITIES AND THE EMPTIES TO GO ALONG WITH IT. SO I AGREE. WELL, IF IF WE BUILT A WASTEWATER TREATMENT PLANT IN CORTLAND TEN YEARS AGO, AND WHAT PERCENTAGE OF THAT IS UTILIZED? 25. SO THAT WE SPENT THAT MONEY OPTIMISTIC WITH THE WITH THE HAMPTON ROADS 30 YEARS AGO THAT THE COUNTY WAS GOING TO GROW. THAT'S WHY WE MADE THAT DECISION. CORRECT. WHY WOULDN'T WE FOCUS ON TRYING TO GET THE DEVELOPMENT TO FULLY UTILIZE THAT RIGHT? TO HELP THE COUNTY FINANCIALLY. AND IF THAT WOULD HELP THE LOCALITY AROUND CORTLAND. TO ME, THAT WOULD BE A WIN WIN SITUATION. SO THAT THAT TO ME SHOULD BE OUR NUMBER. YEAH. WE HAVE TO RUN THAT PLACE AT 100% AND IT'S RUNNING THE 25%. SO ARE WE BUYING RAW SEWAGE TO PUT THROUGH THERE? NO THAT WAS PART OF THE STUDY THAT WAS BEING DONE WITH FRANKLIN A NUMBER OF YEARS. FRANKLIN GOT SMART AND REVAMPED THEIR THEIR SYSTEM AND SAVE THEMSELVES A LOT OF MONEY. SO THEY REPAIRED ALL THEIR PIPES THAT WERE LEAKING. AND THEN NOW THEIR SYSTEM, WHICH IS DOWN ON THE BLACKWATER MEETS STATE STANDARDS. IS IT ALSO MY UNDERSTANDING THAT THAT WATER SEWER DOES NOT GO ACROSS 58? IT RUNS ON ONE SIDE AND NOT THE OTHER. IT'S ON THE WEST, WEST, WEST SIDE OF 58. [INAUDIBLE] WE COULD TAKE ADVANTAGE OF THAT ON BOTH SIDES OF THIS. AND WHEN I BOARD IN. PEOPLE CAN CONNECT TO MY SITE NOW. AND I KNEW I MEAN, THAT WAS WATER ANSWERED BACK THEN, WHAT, 15 YEARS AGO WAS PROBABLY 85,000 TO BORE UNDER 58 BECAUSE YOU HAVE TO GET PERMITS AND STOP THE TRAFFIC. AND THERE'S A LOT MORE TO IT THAN WHAT YOU WOULD THINK. PIPE BIG ENOUGH TO HANDLE THAT 40 ACRE SUBDIVISION BEHIND YOU? I WOULD NOT THINK SO, BUT I'M NOT AN ENGINEER. SOME OF THE PROBLEM IS THAT THE PUMP STATION, THE RESIDENTIAL, WOULD PROBABLY NEED A WHOLE SEPARATE TAKE. THE WASTEWATER FROM WHERE IT'S GENERATED TO THE WASTEWATER TREATMENT PLANT ALL NEED TO BE UPGRADED WHEN YOU COULD PUT IN PUMPING STATIONS. RIGHT, RIGHT, RIGHT, RIGHT. AND THAT SUBDIVISION OFF [INAUDIBLE] RUN ROAD THAT WAS APPROVED YEARS AND YEARS AGO, THE BENSON WOODS SUBDIVISION, THEY WERE ORIGINALLY APPROVED AT AT 40, 40 LOTS. THEY WERE GOING TO USE PUBLIC WATER AND SEWER, BUT THEY WERE GOING TO HAVE TO RATHER THAN PAY AN IMPACT FEE AND PER HOUSE, THEY WERE GOING TO HAVE TO UPGRADE THE PUMP STATIONS ALL AT ONCE. AND THEN GET THAT MONEY BACK AS THEY SOLD THE HOUSES. SO THEY REDUCE THE NUMBER OF LOTS TO 29 SO THEY CAN USE WELL AND SEPTIC INSTEAD OF THE PUBLIC WATER AND SEWER, WHICH AS A PLANNER, I SEE THAT AS KIND OF SHORT SIGHTED BECAUSE THOSE PEOPLE WILL NEVER, EVER PAY A WATER AND SEWER BILL. THOSE HOUSES WILL BE THERE WHEN THEY'RE BUILT, WILL BE THERE FOREVER AND NEVER PAY A WATER AND SEWER BILL. AND SO IT WOULD HAVE IF I WAS A DECISION MAKER, I MAY HAVE CHOSEN TO HAVE THE COUNTY INVEST IN UPGRADING THOSE PUMP STATIONS AND MAKE IT BACK. EVEN IF IT WAS A HOUSE AT A TIME. RATHER THAN NEVER HAVING THAT SUBDIVISION NEED THOSE SERVICES. SO. BUT THE THE MANY DEVELOPERS COME IN AND START THE PROCESS AND WHEN THEY GET TO THE WATER AND SEWER, THAT'S WHEN THE PROJECT ENDS. I MEAN, IT'S JUST IT'S JUST NOT COST EFFECTIVE AND A LOT OF IT DEALS WITH LOCATION, LOCATION, LOCATION IN ORDER TO GET THE WATER IN THE SEWER THERE. AND AND I'VE HAD MANY WE WOULD START THE SITE PLAN PROCESS AND EVENTUALLY IT'S JUST NOT FEASIBLE. AND I WOULD ASSUME THAT THE 40 WENT TO THE 29 BECAUSE THEY'D HAD X AMOUNT PER SQUARE FOOT OF DEVELOPMENT COST. AND THE BANK JUST SAID, I CAN'T. I MEAN THEY COULDN'T, COULDN'T FINANCE IT IF IT HAD TO BE BIGGER WHEN YOU HAD TO GO TO 30,000 SQUARE FOOT LOT. RIGHT. THAT'S THAT'S MY QUESTION IS THE DENSITY THAT WE HAVE BECAUSE I DON'T KNOW THE ANSWER. AND I THINK WE SHOULD TRY TO FIGURE I MEAN, WHAT IS THE IF SOMEBODY'S MOVING TO THE COUNTRY FROM SUFFOLK OR CHESAPEAKE OR WHATEVER, THEY'RE NOT GOING TO WANT A QUARTER OF AN ACRE, I WOULDN'T THINK I MEAN, I CERTAINLY WOULDN'T. BUT, YOU KNOW, IS AN ACRE OF THE RIGHT AMOUNT IS A HALF AN ACRE IF WE HAVE, BECAUSE WHEN WE SAY MINIMUM MEDIUM DENSITY RESIDENTIAL ON THE [00:40:09] PINK. SO IS THAT 1 TO 3 ACRES OR MEDIUM DENSITY IS 3 TO 8 ACRES, 3 TO 8 UNITS AN ACRE, WHICH IS TOWNHOMES. OKAY. OR WALK UP GARDEN APARTMENTS, BUT LOW DENSITY RESIDENTIAL, WHICH IS THE YELLOW ON THAT MAP, LOW DENSITY RESIDENTIAL IS 1 TO 3 UNITS AN ACRE AND THAT'S HOMES ON AN ACRE LOT. WELL, ISN'T THAT WHAT'S HAPPENING NOW? I MEAN, ONE, TWO, THREE. NO, NO ONE. PEOPLE DO. WE DON'T HAVE A LOT OF CREATION OF LOTS BECAUSE YOU HAVE TO GO THROUGH THE RURAL RESIDENTIAL ZONING DESIGNATION. THAT'S 1 TO 5, ISN'T IT? THAT'S A MINIMUM OF ONE AND THE MAXIMUM OF FIVE, BUT THAT'S ONLY ONE LOT AT A TIME. AND THEN YOU HAVE ALL THAT RESIDUAL IF YOU'RE GOING TO MAKE A DIFFERENCE AND USE THE UTILITIES THAT ARE AVAILABLE AND THE WIDER ROADS THAT ARE AVAILABLE AND MAKE EFFICIENT USE OF LAND, YOU'RE GOING TO HAVE TO HAVE SUBDIVISIONS THAT ARE HALF ACRE, THREE QUARTER ACRE LOTS AND THAT'S STILL IN THE 1 TO 3 UNITS AN ACRE. BUT DO WE REALLY THINK AND MAYBE I'M JUST OFF BASE, YOU KNOW, AND I HAVE TO BE EDUCATED, BUT DO WE REALLY THINK THE MEDIUM DENSITY TOWNHOMES IS GOING TO COME BEHIND 58 IN CORTLAND? I MEAN, I, I DON'T REALLY, I, I THINK OUR BEST SHOT IS FOR AN ACRE. DEVELOPMENT, AN ACRE OF LAND OR AT LEAST A HALF AN ACRE OF A NEW FAMILY COMING TO MOVE HERE WITH A RESIDENTIAL DEVELOPMENT THAT IS A NICE NEIGHBORHOOD LIKE YOU SEE IN SUFFOLK. ALL 58 THERE ARE SEVERAL DEVELOPMENT DEVELOPMENTS THAT ARE GOING ON RIGHT NOW. I JUST DON'T SEE A BIG TOWNHOUSE DEVELOPMENT GOING BACK. I MEAN, I OUT OF MY MIND, I MEAN, I, I JUST DON'T THINK THAT THAT IS PRACTICAL OR FEASIBLE OR IN THE NEXT 30 YEARS. YOU SEE, IT WAS 40 ACRES BECAUSE I TALKED TO THE LANDOWNER AND I THINK IT'S THERE LIKE HALF ACRE LOTS IN THERE AND THEY'RE SINGLE HOMES GOING IN THAT AREA BEHIND JACK'S OFFICE. I'VE NEVER. I DIDN'T KNOW IT WAS TOWNHOUSES. I'VE NEVER SEEN ANY PLANS. YEAH, I THINK I THINK WHAT I WAS DESCRIBING WHEN I TALKED TO THE LANDOWNER, IT WAS THEY WERE 65 LOTS ON THE 40 ACRES. AND LIKE YOU SAY, ONCE YOU CUT ROAD STORM WATER, THEY WERE GOING TO BE ROUGHLY IN HALF ACRE SINGLE FAMILY HOME LOTS. RIGHT. BECAUSE THEY'RE GOING TO HAVE TO SPEND A GREAT DEAL OF MONEY TO BRING THE WATER THERE. I MEAN, THE PLAN IS NOT SEWER, RIGHT? IT'S I, I BELIEVE THAT THE PLAN FOR THAT AREA IS TO BE SERVED BY PUBLIC WATER AND SEWER. I WOULD HOPE BECAUSE THAT WOULD BE THE THE THE DOUBLE BENEFIT. RIGHT. I MEAN, THAT'S SOMETHING WE NEED TO START TALKING ABOUT WITH THE COMPREHENSIVE PLAN BECAUSE WHAT IT'S DESIGNATED IS NOW IS NOT WHAT IS REALLY PRACTICABLE. I MEAN. RIGHT. I MEAN, WELL, IF SOMEONE CAME IN AND WANTED TO DO A DEVELOPMENT THAT MIXED IN SOME SENIOR TARGETED HOUSING, SORT OF LIKE THE VILLAGE AT WOODS EDGE AS PART OF THE NEIGHBORHOOD OF SINGLE FAMILY HOMES ON HALF OR THREE QUARTER OR ONE ACRE LOTS. YOU NEED THE MEDIUM DENSITY RESIDENTIAL TO AVERAGE OUT AT ABOUT THREE UNITS AN ACRE. AND THAT MAY BE I THINK THAT WOULD BE GREAT. BUT I JUST I JUST DON'T SEE IT HAPPENING. I MEAN, AND MAYBE IT WILL AND I'M WRONG, BUT I'M SURPRISED AT HOW QUICKLY THE D.R. HORTON HOMES WERE BUILT IN REGENCY. AND THEY'RE THEY'RE BUILDING THEM ONE AFTER THE OTHER AND SELLING THEM FASTER THAN THEY CAN BUILD THEM. THE BETHEL FARMS NEIGHBORHOOD THAT RONNIE PARSONS OWNED, STEVE [INAUDIBLE] HAS HE FOR THE PAST TWO YEARS, HE'S HAD FOUR OR FIVE HOUSES UNDER CONSTRUCTION ALL THE TIME. AS SOON AS HE FINISHES ONE, HE STARTS THE NEXT ONE. THAT'S WHAT SIZE THOSE ARE ACRES? YEAH, AT LEAST AN ACRE. I LIVE IN THAT NEIGHBORHOOD. YEAH. AND THE SANDY CREEK. SANDY RIDGE CREEK [INAUDIBLE]. SOME OF THOSE ARE LIKE HALF ACRE SIZE LOTS AND THEY DON'T HAVE EMPTY LOTS IN THERE ANYMORE. [INAUDIBLE] YEAH. BOBBY TYLER AND TOWNE DEVELOPMENT HAVE JUST FILLED UP ALL THOSE LOTS. [00:45:01] THERE AREN'T. THE BUILDERS WILL TELL YOU IF THEY WANT AN ALREADY PLATTED LOT. THERE JUST AREN'T ANY IN SOUTHAMPTON COUNTY IF THEY DON'T WANT TO RUN ALONG UNITY ROAD ONE HOUSE AFTER THE OTHER LIKE THAT. IF YOU WANT TO BUILD A NEIGHBORHOOD. THERE ISN'T ANYTHING LEFT. DO WE HAVE THE DATA ON THAT? I MEAN, JUST HOW MANY ARE AVAILABLE? HOW MANY EMPTY LOTS ARE IN THERE? WE CAN GET THAT, BUT. NOT MANY, IS WHAT YOU'RE SAYING. NOT MANY. I KNOW, BUT THE FARMS HAD QUITE A FEW. THERE'S 92 LOTS IN THERE. LAST TIME I WENT THROUGH AND IT'S BEEN PROBABLY AND WE PROBABLY GOT IT WAS THERE WAS A LOT MORE HOUSES IN THERE, BUT A LOT OF PEOPLE HAVE BOUGHT MULTIPLE LOTS LIKE LARRY WISE LIVES IN THERE. HE OWNS LIKE TWO OR THREE LOTS. SO THEY'RE THEY'VE BOUGHT MULTIPLE, MULTIPLE LOTS IN THERE. MS. LEWIS, HOW MANY LOTS DO WE HAVE ON SOUTHAMPTON COUNTY RIGHT NOW? I COULDN'T TELL YOU. I'VE OVER THE YEARS, I'VE HEARD IT IN THE THOUSANDS. IN THE THOUSANDS I'VE HEARD ABOUT 35 . THOSE ARE VACANT. THAT'S THE NUMBER I'VE HEARD OF. VACANT LOTS IN OLIVE SOUTHAMPTON COUNTY. OH, THAT'S INCLUDING BOYKINS-BRANCHVILLE. WHATEVER. THAT'S WHAT I HEARD FOR THE PAST TEN YEARS OR SO. SO THE NEIGHBORHOODS, THE PLATTED NEIGHBORHOODS, THE TYPICAL SUBURBAN SINGLE FAMILY NEIGHBORHOODS, THERE ARE VERY FEW EMPTY LOTS LEFT. IT'S A SLIDING SCALE COME INTO EFFECT HERE WITH FOUR CUTS PER 100 ACRES OR. RIGHT. BUT THAT'S YOU KNOW, THAT'S STILL RURAL RESIDENTIAL. SO YOU'RE STILL STRINGING THAT OUT ALONG RURAL ROADS. RIGHT. AND WE WANT TO GET AWAY FROM THAT. CORRECT. IT SOUNDS LIKE THAT IS WHAT YOU WOULD LIKE TO DO. AND THAT'S CERTAINLY A WAY TO PRESERVE THE AGRICULTURE AND FORESTVILLE LAND IF PEOPLE ARE GOING TO COME HERE, CAN YOU GIVE ME THOSE NUMBERS AGAIN? YOU SAID THE LOW DENSITY WAS 1 TO 3 ACRES. YES. AND THEN THE MEDIUM DENSITY, 3 TO 8. 3 TO 8. [INAUDIBLE] NOW THE ONE UP THERE BESIDE FRANKLIN WHEN THEY WANTED TO DO THE DENSITY UP THERE, THAT WAS LIKE A HOUSE PER TEN, 10,000 SQUARE FEET. RIGHT? WEREN'T THEY REALLY PACKING THEM IN? AND THAT WAS ZONED. THAT WAS GOING TO BE A ZONE OF WHAT? I REMEMBER IT WAS FOUR HOUSES PER ACRE. THERE ARE WHEN YOU GO UP HIGH STREET TOWARDS [INAUDIBLE]. ORIGINALLY HE WANTED IT YOU KNOW, HE WAS GOING TO GET THAT LIKE HE GAVE THE LAND FOR THE SCHOOL AND HE'S GOING TO PUT IT RIGHT IN THE CENTER. BUT HE WAS GOING TO PACK IT IN SO TIGHT. WELL, HE WAS GOING TO HAVE SOME AREAS. HE WAS GOING TO HAVE ABOUT 300 HOMES THAT WERE ON ACRE LOTS. 1,200 ALTOGETHER WAS HIS MASTER PLAN. BUT THEN HE WAS GOING TO HAVE SENIOR TARGETED APARTMENTS AND ATTACHED UNITS AND CONGREGATE LIVING. SO THERE WERE GOING TO BE SOME HIGH DENSITY BUILDINGS UP NEAR THE ROAD. RIGHT. AND THEN THE THE BACK SORT OF AROUND THE SCHOOL WAS GOING TO BE ABOUT 300 HOMES ON THREE QUARTER ACRE LOTS OR ONE ACRE LOTS, I THINK. BUT I THINK HE PLANNED A TOTAL OF 700 UNITS. BUT WHEN YOU BUILD A NURSING HOME, EACH ROOM COUNTS AS A UNIT. AND HE WAS GOING TO HAVE A NURSING HOME. HE'S GOING TO HAVE A PHARMACY, A NURSING HOME, CONVENIENCE STORE, MEDICAL OFFICES, ALL THE LITTLE GROUP THERE, TOO. YEAH, WELL, I GUESS MY MY THING IS, WE WE LOOKED AND WE LOOKED DOWN ON THAT TYPE OF DEVELOPMENT. SO LIKE JACK HAD SAID, WE GOT TO DEFINE WHAT WE'RE LOOKING FOR. WHEN YOU'RE SAYING THAT THE THREE UNITS PER ACRE OR TWO UNITS PER ACRE, THAT'S MOVING PRETTY FAST. IS THAT RIGHT. YEAH. THERE'S THOSE LOTS ARE ARE PRETTY MUCH IN IN PLATTED SUBDIVISIONS. THERE AREN'T A WHOLE LOT OF THOSE LOTS LEFT. YEAH. YOU COME RIGHT DOWN TO IT. THE ONLY THING THAT COULD PRESERVE FARMLAND IS THE FARMING IS PROFITABLE. WHEN IT'S NOT PROFITABLE, IT'S EASY TO GET RID OF IT. BUT EVEN AT THAT, WE NEED TO PLAN ON THE RESIDENTIAL PART FOR THE [INAUDIBLE] BECAUSE YOU DROP A BUNCH OF HOUSES OUT IN THE MIDDLE. [00:50:05] JUST NO WAY. IT PROBABLY NEEDS TO BE NEAR THE THE WATER AND THE SEWER SYSTEM, WHICH RUNS FROM THE SCHOOL TO THE TOWN OF CORTLAND. I AGREE THAT MAKES SENSE TO UTILIZE [INAUDIBLE]. AND PREFERABLY ON THE OTHER SIDE, BUT CAN BE ADAPTED TO BECAUSE. YOU KNOW, AN AREA DEVELOPER IS NOT GOING TO SPEND 25% OF HIS ENTIRE PROJECT COSTS TO GET IN. AND I WOULD ASSUME AND I'M SPECULATING IS I DON'T KNOW. BUT THE [INAUDIBLE] RUN PROJECT DIED BECAUSE OF THE LACK OF SEWER AND WATER. AND IT'S NOT THAT FAR OUTSIDE THE TOWN OF CORTLAND, BUT WHEN YOU'RE TALKING A HALF A MILE PER 100 FOOT, THERE'S PROBABLY A COST OF $75,050. I MEAN, IT'S THAT'S PIPE AND BORING AND RUNNING EVERYTHING. IT AMOUNTED TO THE COUNTY WOULD INVEST ABOUT $18,000 PER LOT TO GET THAT SEWER AND WATER OUT THERE. YEAH, THAT'S WHY IT DIED. BUT IT'S A GOOD PLACE TO GO HUNTING RIGHT NOW, RIGHT? I MEAN, SO SO IT DIDN'T HAPPEN. SO THAT'S TOO FAR. I MEAN. RIGHT? I MEAN, JUST LOOKING AT IT PRACTICALLY. SO IT NEEDS TO BE SOMETHING THERE VERY CLOSE TO THE WATER. AND THERE ARE WAYS. WHEN YOU'RE IN FRANKLIN, YOU GO NORTH ON HIGH STREET UP TO RIVERWOOD, THE RIVERWOOD SUBDIVISION. THAT DEVELOPER PUT IN A LOT OF WATER AND SEWER INFRASTRUCTURE AND WE'LL GET PAID BACK AS THOSE SUBDIVISIONS BETWEEN RIVERWOOD AND THE REST OF THE CITY DEVELOP. BUT THAT'S BEEN A LONG, LONG TIME AND NOT A WHOLE LOT OF DEVELOPERS CAN AFFORD TO HAVE THAT KIND OF MONEY SITTING OUT THERE. SO IN THE TOWN OF [INAUDIBLE] IF YOU EXTEND THE PIPES AND YOU OVERSIZE THEM BIGGER THAN WHAT YOU NEED THEN YOU GET PAID BACK AS THE LOTS IN BETWEEN DEVELOP. BUT AFTER SEVEN YEARS, IF YOU HAVEN'T GOTTEN ALL YOUR MONEY BACK THEN THE TOWN PAYS YOU BACK. IS THAT A PERCENTAGE OF THE TAP FEE THAT THEY PAY? JUST LIKE 20% GOES TO THE DEVELOPER AND THE REST GOES TO THE LOCALITY. YEAH. SOMETHING, SOMETHING LIKE THAT. YEAH. SO, BUT NOT A WHOLE LOT OF DEVELOPERS CAN, CAN BE SITTING WAITING AS LONG AS THE RIVERWOOD DEVELOPER HAS BEEN WAITING TO GET REPAID. BECAUSE THERE ARE A LOT OF PLATTED LOTS UP THERE IN THE NORTHERN PART OF FRANKLIN, BETWEEN THE VILLAGE AT WOODS EDGE AND THE RIVERWOOD SUBDIVISION. BUT. IS THERE A WAY WE COULD GET THE WATER AND THE SEWER JUST SO IT'S KIND OF PUT ON? I WOULD LOVE THAT BECAUSE PUBLIC WORKS HAVE THAT BECAUSE I REALLY DON'T KNOW. I MEAN, I'VE GOT AN IDEA, BUT I WOULD LOVE TO HAVE THAT. I MEAN, [INAUDIBLE] ASKING FOR THAT FOR YEARS. BECAUSE IF THEY IF A LANDOWNER HAS THAT ON A PIECE OF 120 ACRES, CERTAINLY THAT WOULD MAKE THAT PROPERTY MUCH MORE VALUABLE FROM A COMMERCIAL PERSPECTIVE. I WOULD LOVE TO HAVE THAT. AND THEN THE COMMERCIAL DEVELOPER WOULD HAVE TO PAY THE TAP FEE FOR THAT, WHICH IS PRETTY SIGNIFICANT. IT'S THE PLANNING COMMISSION IS SENDING A REQUEST IN. WOULD THAT HELP? AND IF THAT INFORMATION IS EVEN AVAILABLE, EVEN IF THERE'S EVEN A MAP THAT SHOWS THAT. AND THERE'S AN AREA JUST OUTSIDE. WELL, IT'S PARTLY IN NEWSOMS AND JUST OUTSIDE NEWSOMS OFF BALL PARK ROAD THAT'S ABOUT 50 OR 60 ACRES THAT JUST BEFORE I STARTED WORKING FOR THE COUNTY, SOMEONE WANTED TO DEVELOP INTO A SINGLE FAMILY HOME. THAT'S CORRECT. BUT THE LAND WAS TOO SMALL WHEN IT GOT TO WORKS BECAUSE IT WAS THIS GREAT BIG WITH THE WITH THAT PROJECT, THAT FUNDED PROJECT. IT'S THESE MASSIVE PLASTIC PIPES, YOU KNOW. AND WHEN IT GETS TO COURT, WHEN IT GETS TO BOYKINS, IT GOES TO A LITTLE SMALL TERRACOTTA PIPE TO GET TO THE PLANT. TO THE PLANT. AND THAT'S A PROBLEM. IT WENT RIGHT TO THE TOWN LIMITS AND THEN IT WENT [INAUDIBLE] YOU KNOW, THAT'S THAT'S A SYSTEM THAT BLEEDS. I THINK IT'S A LOT OF ISSUES THERE. AND IT TAUGHT ONE TIME ABOUT PUTTING UP ANOTHER LINE ACROSS THE COUNTRYSIDE, YOU MIGHT SAY, AND THEY WERE BUILT SOLAR PLANT ON TOP OF THAT. SO THAT WON'T HAPPEN. ANYWAY. [00:55:04] SO I WILL IN THE UPCOMING MONTH, I WILL GET AS MUCH WATER AND SEWER LOCATION INFORMATION AS I CAN FOR YOU. I WILL GET YOU SOME EXAMPLES OF HOW TO DEVELOP A COMMUNITY THAT LOOKS LIKE WAKE FOREST. IF THAT'S WHAT YOU'RE INTERESTED IN, LIKE. WELL, I LIKE WILLIAMSBURG TOO, AND WILLIAMSBURG. RIGHT. PORTLAND UNIVERSITY. AND ANOTHER THING AND I'M NOT GOING TO PUT THE SHERIFF ON THE SPOT, BUT, YOU KNOW, I JUST. I JUST. I DON'T KNOW. I DON'T. I GUESS I'M OLD FASHIONED, I RECKON. AND I'M OLD ENOUGH, I CAN SAY THAT I CAN GET AWAY WITH THAT. BUT, YOU KNOW, RECENTLY AND I KNOW I KNOW Y'ALL HAVE SEEN IT IN THE PEOPLE IN THE NEWS. I MEAN, THAT YOU WOULD TALK ABOUT MORE PEOPLE. AND I KNOW WE CAN'T RESIST PEOPLE COMING TO OUR AREA BECAUSE A LOT OF GOOD PEOPLE COME [INAUDIBLE] YOU KNOW, I'M NOT GOING TO SAY THE SHERIFF HAS EVERYTHING HE NEEDS. HE'S PROBABLY LIKE HAVE A LOT MORE PERSONNEL AND A LOT MORE VEHICLES AND WHATEVER SYSTEMS, YOU KNOW, IN HIS BUDGET. BUT THE SHERIFF IS SHERIFF AND HIS STAFF DOES A GREAT JOB OF PROTECTING THE COUNTY. I MEAN, A STUPENDOUS JOB. AND BUT A LOT OF IT IS IS THE PEOPLE THAT'S HERE NOW KNOW. [INAUDIBLE] BUT I WILL TELL YOU, IT'S REALLY ALARMING. THAT NORFOLK, VIRGINIA BEACH AND CHESAPEAKE AND PORTSMOUTH AND NOW SUFFOLK. AND WE ALL LISTEN AS THE 11:00 NEWS. I DON'T GET ANY EARLIER, 6:00 NEWS. I LOOK AT 11:00 NEWS. BUT HE HAD LIKE A COUPLE OF NIGHTS AGO, ABOUT TWO PEOPLE GOT KILLED IN SUFFOLK AND PEOPLE ARE RIDING DOWN THE ROAD IN THEIR CARS AND JUST SHOOT. I MEAN, IT'S TERRIBLE. ABSOLUTELY. WHEN I WAS A YOUNGSTER AND I TOLD I TOLD MY WIFE, I AND I TOLD MY SON WHEN I WAS A YOUNGSTER, WHEN I WAS LIKE A TEENAGER, YOU KNOW, ALL THE CRIME WAVE SHERIFF, WHICH WAS NEW YORK CITY AND DETROIT AND SAN FRANCISCO, YOU KNOW, AND WHEN I'M TALKING, IT IS THE BIG CITIES. YOU KNOW, YOU DIDN'T HEAR THAT LOCALLY. AND NOW SUFFOLK IS RIGHT ACROSS THE BLACKWATER RIVER AND SOME IT'S BEEN A LOT OF CRIME IN THE HARLEM. YOU TALKED ABOUT HARLEM WHILE AGO AND HARLEM, NOT A MAJOR METRO AREA. A LOT OF PEOPLE LIVE IN THE AREA. BUT, YOU KNOW, WE WE DON'T WANT TO BRING CRIME. WE LIKE TO SHARE WITH THE PUBLIC JUST LIKE IT IS, YOU KNOW. BUT I MEAN, WE GET TO THE POINT WHERE HE WON'T BE ABLE TO HANDLE IT IF WE GET SO, SO, SO, SO I WANT TO KEEP THE COUNTY RULE AS BEST WE CAN, KEEP THE WILDLIFE, KEEP THE TREES, KEEP THE RIVERS. I STILL SAY WE'LL WE'RE BLESSED TO HAVE THAT PURE WATER AND WE'VE GOT LOTS OF WATER AND A LOT OF PLACES DON'T HAVE LOTS OF WATER. AND I KNEW. RIGHT, THAT YOU COULD SAVE NOT ONLY RIVER TRYING TO COME BACK, BUT WE HAVE WE HAVE WATER. WE COULD TAP WATER A COUPLE OF HUNDRED FEET DOWN. IT'S GOOD AND IT'S GOOD WATER AND WE HAVE CLEAN AIR. AND I'M GONNA TELL YOU, I JUST DON'T DESTROY THAT WITH A BUNCH OF PEOPLE TRYING TO PUT IN A BUNCH OF NEIGHBORHOODS. WE CAN HAVE SOME LITTLE WILLIAMSBURG AREAS. I DON'T HAVE A PROBLEM WITH THAT, BUT I DON'T DO LIKE SUFFOLK. SUFFOLK. AND I DON'T KNOW WHAT WHAT INSTILLED THAT WHY THE CITY OF SUFFOLK WANTED TO TAKE OVER NASSAU COUNTY YEARS AGO. THERE WAS A REASON AND I DON'T KNOW WHAT THE REASON WAS, BUT, YOU KNOW, I DON'T KNOW IF YOU ARE ALLOWED, YOU KNOW, TO HAVE TRASH PICKUP WITH THE BANDS ALL OVER THOSE RURAL ROADS. I'VE SEEN IT ALL THEIR LITTLE RURAL CHECKERBOARD HOUSES DOWN THE ROAD [INAUDIBLE] EVERYONE'S GOT A WASTE RECEPTACLE AND THE HIGHWAY AND IF YOU COME ALONG ON THAT DAY ALL DON'T TRASH CANS AND COME OUT THERE WHEN THE WIND'S BLOWING THAT MORNING AND [INAUDIBLE] I'M JUST SAYING, YOU KNOW, I GOT A LOT OF FRIENDS LIVING IN SUFFOLK. I GOT TO DO BUSINESS. [INAUDIBLE] I WAS LOOKING AT LIKE ONE LOW DENSITY RESIDENTIAL NOW WILLIAMSBURG. I WANT TO I WANT TO JUST MAKE SURE I'M CLEAR ON THAT. WELL, WE HAVE LIKE, MR. TURNER, YOUR AREA IS CALLED [INAUDIBLE] NICE COMMUNITY. I WAS UP BUILT A FRIEND UP ON THE WHAT THEY CALL THE KING AND QUEEN STREET OFF [INAUDIBLE] NICE THAT'S FAIRLY NEW YOU KNOW [INAUDIBLE]. YOU KNOW THERE ARE REALLY WE GOT SOME REAL [INAUDIBLE] ESTATE, YOU KNOW, WE GOT SOME REALLY NEAT PLACE ALL OVER THE COUNTY. THERE'S A DEVELOPMENT IN BOYKINS, YOU KNOW, KIND OF KIND OF WE'RE NOT TALKING ABOUT THE ONES THAT KIND OF PLANNED OUT THE CUL DE SACS WHERE [INAUDIBLE] YOU KNOW, I'M ALL FOR THAT. [01:00:02] BUT, MS. LEWIS, I YOU YOU KNOW, I AGREE. SOMEBODY MADE A COMMENT THAT, YOU KNOW, WE NEED WE NEEDED TO READDRESS WHAT GOES OUT ON THE SO-CALLED COUNTRY ROADS. IT MIGHT BE 50 YEARS OUT BEFORE WE PUT DEVELOPMENTS THERE. BUT BUT I CONCUR AND I'LL BE QUIET AFTER THIS. I CONCUR. IF WE HAD THE UTILITY MAP. AND I THINK THAT WOULD BE VERY, VERY HELPFUL. AND THEN THAT WOULD MAKE IT EASIER FOR THE SHERIFF IN HIS DEPARTMENT TO HE HAD TO GO OVER ALL THOSE SQUARE MILES OF THE COUNTY FOR, YOU KNOW, WHAT THE POPULATION WE HAVE AND THEN WOULD THINK ABOUT. I DON'T KNOW HOW THAT'S COME ALONG, IS THE WHAT IS IT NOT WHY. WHAT'S THE CABLE CALLED. BROADBAND. THE BROADBAND. THE BROADBAND. I DON'T KNOW HOW THAT'S COMING ALONG IF WE DIDN'T START IT YET OR NOT. BUT YOU KNOW, THE AREAS WHERE THE POPULATION, THEY SORT OF NEED TO GET IT FIRST. I WANT IT TO, BUT THAT'S WHY IT NEEDS TO BE AT FIRST. BUT TO TRY TO SERVICE THE WHOLE COUNTY, YOU KNOW, REALLY DIFFICULT. AND I KNOW IT'S HARD FOR THE SHERIFF'S DEPARTMENT AND I SURE IT'S DIFFICULT FOR SUFFOLK, BUT SO SO MANY HOUSES STRUNG OUT ALL AROUND THE COUNTRYSIDE. IF THERE WAS AN ISSUE AND I AND I SAY ABOUT IT, SURE, IT'S FIRE AND RESCUE AS WELL, THIS JUST SPREADS SO THIN TO GO OUT SO FAR. BUT ANYWAY, WE I DO THINK WE NEED TO I THINK THIS IS A BREAKING POINT. WE NEED TO ADDRESS OUR REAL CONCENTRATION. [INAUDIBLE] I REMEMBER A NUMBER OF YEARS AGO THIS LONG TERM RESIDENT OF COUNTY, I SAID, WHAT WOULD YOU DO IF I TOLD YOU YOU ONLY HAVE ONE DAY TO LIVE? AND HE SAID, DOC, I'D GO TO HAMPTON. THAT'D BE THE LONGEST DAY OF MY LIFE. WELL, YOU KNOW, WE WE LOOK AT THIS NOT TOO LONG AGO, 07' 08' AND PROPERTY VALUES DROPPED IN. FRANKLY, THERE WAS A LOT OF HOUSES THAT JUST DEVALUED. ALL RIGHT. AND THAT'S NOT THAT LONG AGO. I REMEMBER WAY [INAUDIBLE] ANYWAY. HOW MANY VACANT HOUSES DO WE HAVE IN THE COUNTY? IS THAT A WAY TO TELL THAT? I MEAN, I KNOW EVERY TIME YOU HEAR ONE GOING UP FOR SALE, IT DOESN'T TAKE LONG TO SAY, ALL RIGHT. AND MORE OF A I GUESS MY THING IS, IS THERE ANY WAY THAT WE CAN ENCOURAGE SOMEBODY WHEN THEY COME IN INSTEAD OF INSTEAD OF BUILDING A NEW HOUSE, LET'S MAKE SURE THAT OUR HOUSES THAT WE ALREADY HAVE STAY FULL. AND I DON'T KNOW HOW WE CAN DO THAT OTHER THAN, YOU KNOW. AND I HATE TO USE THE WORD TAX INCENTIVES, BUT JUST SOMETHING THAT WOULD CATCH PEOPLE'S ATTENTION. WELL, I'M BETTER OFF TO GO IN IN COURTLAND OR WHEREVER AND BUY A HOUSE THAN I AM TO GO OUT IN THE COUNTRY AND BUILD A BRAND NEW SOMETHING THAT WOULD GIVE THAT INCENTIVE. AND I DON'T I DON'T KNOW HOW TO PULL THAT UP UNLESS YOU PULL UP REAL ESTATE AGENTS. AND I DON'T KNOW. WELL, I THINK IN THE HOUSING CHAPTER THAT YOU GOT LAST MONTH HAS SOME HOW MANY OCCUPIED RESIDENCES, HOW MANY RESIDENCES THERE ARE AND HOW MANY OCCUPIED RESIDENCES THERE ARE. SO THAT WOULD TELL YOU WHAT YOUR IT'S. HOW UP TO DATE IS THAT? WELL, THAT WAS THE 2020 CENSUS [INAUDIBLE]. SO, UH. RIGHT. BUT IT TOOK FOREVER FOR THE 2020 CENSUS NUMBERS TO COME OUT. SO, YOU KNOW, WHO KNOWS? HOW ACCURATE? HOW LONG? HOW OLD THAT INFORMATION IS? IT MIGHT NOT BE AS OLD AS AS WE THINK IT IS SINCE IT'S 2022. BUT I THINK THAT WAS IN THAT HOUSING INFORMATION THAT YOU GOT LAST MONTH. TELL US HOW MANY VACANT HOUSES THERE WERE. SO IT SEEMS I UNDERSTAND THAT IT'S VERY IMPORTANT TO RETAIN THE RURAL SOUTHAMPTON COUNTY, WHICH IS VERY APPARENT AND HAS BEEN FOR YEARS. BUT ACKNOWLEDGING THAT THERE MAY NEED TO BE SOME FURTHER RESIDENTIAL DEVELOPMENT. YOU'D PREFER THAT IT WAS CLUSTERED IN AREAS WHERE THERE ARE SERVICES AND THERE ARE ALREADY OTHER HOUSES. AND I THINK WITH YOUR WITH THE WAY THAT THE COMMUNITIES ARE SET UP, WITH THE PLANNING AREAS THAT ARE SET UP, YOU HAVE A VERY GOOD BASIS FOR THAT. YOU HAVE A WAY TO START THAT. THINKING. AND WHEN YOU AGREED TOO MS. LEWIS THAT DID ONE DAY BY ESTABLISHING THE AG AND FORCE OF DISTRICTS, THEN THAT KIND OF THEN THE PEOPLE KIND OF MAKE A STATEMENT AT THAT POINT THAT IT WANTS TO ENTER INTO THAT CONTRACT THAT THEY WERE KIND OF. THEY WERE WILLING TO GIVE UP THE SERVICES INTO THE WATER AND SEWER IF IT COULD REMAIN SO. [01:05:05] SO SOME SOME AREAS ARE REALLY VESTED IN THE AG AND DISTRICTS AND THEY'VE KIND OF SPOKEN AND MAYBE THE ONES THAT DID NOT PARTICIPATE, MAYBE THEY GOT OTHER IDEAS TO DO WITH THEIR PROPERTY. WHO KNOWS? AND [INAUDIBLE] WAS BROUGHT UP. WHAT WAS IT TO YOUR DEVELOPMENT AND THAT ONE OF THE OPTIONS THAT PEOPLE CAN DO, YOU KNOW, HOW CAN WE ENCOURAGE THAT? NOT THAT WE WON'T ENCOURAGE IT IN THE RURAL AREA, BUT INSTEAD OF PUTTING MAILBOX AFTER MAILBOX, TRY TO MAKE AN INCENTIVE TO PUT SIX HOUSES IN ONE SPOT INSTEAD OF SIX TIMES THAT DOWN THE ROAD BECAUSE IT'S AGGRAVATING TO HAVE SIX MAILBOXES. YOU'D BE SURPRISED HOW MANY MAILBOXES THAT SOMEBODY HAS TO GO BACK TO THAT RATHER THAN HITTING A CAR. YOU'D RATHER TAKE A MAILBOX OUT. AND I'M SURE THE SCHOOL BUS DRIVERS FEEL THE SAME WAY. AND THE MAIL CARRIERS. YES, SIR. [INAUDIBLE] WOULD YOU ALL LIKE TO GO WITH MR. COUSINS TO COME UP, MAKE A STATEMENT? [INAUDIBLE] I WAS ON THE ORIGINAL LAND USE TASKFORCE WHEN WE STARTED THIS WHOLE DEAL BACK IN THE LATE NINETIES. I APPRAISED ALL THE PROPERTIES THAT THE SEWER PUMP STATIONS ARE ON, AND NOW I'M ON THE LAND USE TASK FORCE. SO I HAVE A COUPLE OF COMMENTS AND A COUPLE OF QUESTIONS THAT KIND OF RELATE TO EACH ONE OF THOSE. IF YOU IF YOU GIVE ME A FEW. YES, SIR. THE PROPERTY BEHIND MR. RANDALL'S OFFICE, IF I'M NOT MISTAKEN, CASS CAMPOS, THAT IF YOU TALK ABOUT BUILDING A PLACE RIGHT THERE FOR SENIORS TO LIVE. IT'S LIKE LIVE IN THE VILLAGE OF WOODS EDGE. YOU CAN'T FORGET THAT INTERSECTION AT HARDY'S. I MEAN, ALMOST EVERY MEETING WE HAVE OF THE. THE TRAFFIC ADVISORY COMMITTEE, SOMEBODY COMES UP AND COMPLAINS ABOUT SOMETHING ABOUT THAT INTERSECTION. SO IF YOU'RE GOING TO PUT 30 HOMES BACK THERE FOR RETIRED PEOPLE WON'T BE VERY LONG BEFORE YOU HAVE A COUPLE OF DEAD PEOPLE OUT THERE IN THAT INTERSECTION BECAUSE OLD PEOPLE JUST DON'T SEE AND HEAR AND DRIVE AS WELL AS YOUNGER PEOPLE. THAT'S SOMETHING ELSE TO THINK ABOUT ALL OF IT. AND ANOTHER THING IS, IF YOU'RE LOOKING AT A PIECE OF PROPERTY TO DEVELOP HIGH DENSITY AND DOES NOT HAVE TWO OR MORE, I MEAN, DOES NOT HAVE PUBLIC ORDER. YOU'VE GOT TO THINK ABOUT SEPTIC SYSTEMS. AND THAT BOILS DOWN TO THE SOIL TYPE. SO DON'T OWN A PIECE OF PROPERTY THAT YOU CAN HAVE THREE QUARTER ACRE LOTS AND EVERYBODY HAVE A SEWER AND WATER SEPTIC SYSTEM. BUT IT WOULDN'T WORK IN A WHOLE LOT OF THE SOUTHERN COUNTY, SOUTH OF 671, FROM HOUSTON DOWN TO CAROLINA. IT'S JUST ONE STEP ABOVE A SWAMP. YEAH, REALLY? THAT'S TRUE. YOU'RE RIGHT. YOU LOOK AT THE HAMPTON INTERSECTION WHERE IT USED TO BE THE PAPER, THE BIG CANAL GOES ALL THE WAY DOWN TO SYCAMORE BAPTIST CHURCH AND GOES TO THE [INAUDIBLE]. IT'S THERE FOR A PURPOSE, IS TO DRAIN ALL THAT SOIL AROUND IN BEAVER. SO YOU'VE GOT TO CONSIDER SOIL AS IMPORTANT. YOU'VE GOT TO CONSIDER TRAFFIC AND INTERSECTIONS IF YOU GOING PUT OLD PEOPLE IN A PLACE LIKE THAT. SOMETHING ELSE CAME TO MIND, BUT. I'VE ALREADY FORGOTTEN. I DIDN'T WRITE IT DOWN. SOMETHING ELSE SEEMED REAL IMPORTANT. SO WHILE YOU'RE THINKING I'M INTERRUPT, BUT I'LL MAKE THE COMMENT FURTHER. THAT SAME PROPERTY YOU'RE SPEAKING ABOUT, AND THIS HAD BEEN SEVERAL YEARS AGO, BUT I WAS AT YOUR MEETING, BUT I SAW A MAP THAT A VDOT GROUP THAT IT'S A PROPOSED LOOP BYPASS ROAD THROUGH THAT PROPERTY. DO YOU REMEMBER. DO YOU REMEMBER SEEING THAT THAT WAS A IT'S LIKE A 10 OR 20 YEAR PLAN OUT. ANYBODY [INAUDIBLE] THIS SUBDIVISION YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT ON [INAUDIBLE] RUN ROAD, IS THAT JUST ANOTHER SIDE OF COUNTRY CLUB ROAD BETWEEN THERE AND THE NORTH CHAPEL? YES, THAT'S WHERE IT IS UP ON THE HILL THERE. WHERE? UP ON THE HILL. GOING OUT, RIGHT. GOING TOWARD NORWAY CHAPEL ON THE RIGHT HAND SIDE. OKAY. THE BANK HIRED ME TO APPRAISE THAT BEFORE THAT SUBDIVISION WAS DEVELOPED. AND THEY HAD A PAPER PLAN FOR THE PLANT. AND I THINK WHAT'S CALLED SUBDIVISION ANALYSIS, WHERE SOME OF THE THINGS YOU LOOK AT ARE THE THE BUILD OUT PERIOD, HOW LONG IT WILL TAKE TO SELL THE LOTS. AND YOU LOOK AT THE TAXES AND THE COST OF STREETS AND EVERYTHING AND WHAT YOU END UP TRYING TO TELL THE BANK IS WHAT THAT PROPERTY IS WORTH AS A VACANT LAND BEFORE THE [01:10:03] DEVELOPER BUYS IT. AND IF OUR MILL CORRECT THAT CAME UP WITH $800 AN ACRE, ANYTHING OVER $800 AN ACRE, THE DEVELOPER WASN'T GONNA MAKE ANY MONEY, AND I THINK HE PAID A COUPLE OF THOUSAND DOLLARS AN ACRE FOR. AND PRETTY SOON THEY WERE IN OVER THEIR HEADS AND NOT HAVING ENOUGH LOTS TO HAVE PUBLIC SCHOOL AND WATER THAT THAT PROBABLY WAS A BIG, BIG PART OF IT. BUT HE ENDED UP GOING BANKRUPT AND NOW THE STREETS ARE NOT PAVED. THERE'S BIG HOLES IN THERE THAT WOULD MAKE A SCHOOL BUS. THE PROBLEM IS. THE DEVELOPER WAS ALLOWED TO PUT SUBSTANDARD ROADS THAT DIDN'T MEET VDOT STANDARDS. SO VDOT IS NOT GOING TO FIX THEM. THAT'S CORRECT. BUT THE COUNTY DIDN'T MAKE HIM COVER THE BOND. THEY RELEASED HIM FROM THE BOND OBLIGATION. IF YOU HAD TO POSE, WHICH IS JUST AN INSURANCE POLICY ANYWAY. BUT SO HE WAS HE, HE DIDN'T HAVE TO FIX THE STREETS. THEY ARE THE PEOPLE WHO LIVE THERE ARE STUCK WITH IT UNLESS THEY FIX IT. SO YOU GOT A LOT TO CONSIDER. BUT REMEMBER, TRAFFIC FOR OLD PEOPLE AND SOIL TYPES FOR SEWER IS REAL. YOU'RE RIGHT, THERE'S HOLES, BUT NOT BIG ENOUGH TO BURY A CAR. CAN I ASK YOU ONE QUESTION? SCHOOL BUS GOES AROUND THE HOLES. WHAT ARE WHAT ARE YOUR THOUGHTS? AND I'M AND I'M THINKING OF I MEAN, THE DESIGNATION IS LOW DENSITY RESIDENTIAL. I'M THINKING OF ACRE LOTS. WHAT DO YOU THINK ABOUT HAVING I MEAN, WHAT ARE YOUR JUST GENERAL THOUGHTS ABOUT HAVING ACRE LOTS OF A SUBDIVISION OF HOUSING, RESIDENTIAL HOUSING ALONG 58 THAT HAS ACCESS TO THE WATER AND SEWER. DON'T HAVE ANY PROBLEM AS LONG AS EVERYBODY HAS ITS OWN OWN DRIVEWAY, THAT'S A BIG PROBLEM. ALL THE COUNTIES WHERE SCHOOL BUS STOPS EVERY HUNDRED AND 50 FEET AT ONE ACRE LOT. BECAUSE WHAT I'M HEARING FROM MS. LEWIS IS, IS BETHEL FARMS A LOT OF THESE, WHAT I CALL DESIRABLE AREA, BECAUSE WE CAN TALK ABOUT WE HAVE 4000 LOTS OF THE MIDDLE OF [INAUDIBLE] DOWN A DIRT ROAD. A FAMILY IS NOT GOING TO WANT TO LIVE THERE. THEY'RE GOING TO WANT A NEIGHBORHOOD. I MEAN, AT LEAST THAT'S WHAT I HEAR. MAYBE I'M WRONG. BUT SO TO MARKET THAT AND TO GET THESE PRODUCTIVE PEOPLE THAT ARE NOT ON THE 11:00 NEWS TO COME AND LIVE IN OUR AREA. RIGHT. THAT'S THE THINGS THAT WE HAVE TO TRY AND MARKET. I WOULD THINK SO. AND I'M NOT TALKING ABOUT, YOU KNOW 800 ACRES. I'M TALKING MAYBE 100 ACRES TO HELP OUR OUR WATER SYSTEM, BECAUSE IF IT'S COMMON, WE OUGHT TO PLAN FOR IT. BECAUSE IF IT'S COMMON, IT'S COMMON. WHETHER WE WERE WE'RE PLANNING FOR IT OR IT'S GOING TO BE LIKE. IT'S GOING TO BE A OR B, RIGHT? I AGREE. SO DO YOU THINK THAT'S A GOOD IDEA? AND IF YOU DON'T THINK IT'S A GOOD IDEA, WHAT IS YOUR GOOD IDEA? I THINK IT'S A GOOD IDEA TO PLAN FOR IT. BUT I THINK YOU ALSO GOT TO KEEP IN MIND THAT EVERY SINGLE FAMILY DWELLING YOU LET DEVELOP IN THE COUNTY FOR EVERY DOLLAR IN TAXES THEY PAY. IT COST THE TAXPAYERS A DOLLAR $0.30. SO YOU LOSE $0.30. CAN YOU CAN I ASK WHERE YOU REFERENCES? THAT'S A MOST THAT'S IN THE PLANNING CLASS THE COUNTY PAYS. HE'S RIGHT. A DOLLAR 33 FOR EVERY DOLLAR THAT THEY COLLECT IN TAX. WELL, WE CAN'T BE AN OSTRICH AND PUT OUR HEAD IN AND SAY, OH, WELL, WE'RE NOT PLAYING PAYING FOR HOUSING. NO. YOU HAVE TO PLAN FOR IT. YOU HAVE TO CONSIDER WHERE YOU LIVE AND WHERE I LIVE AND WHERE SHE SAID SANDY RIDGE PEOPLE WON'T HALF ACRE OR BIGGER. AND THAT'S WHY I'M PICKING AN ACRE. I AGREE. RIGHT. [INAUDIBLE] I COMPLETELY AGREE. I COMPLETELY AGREE. AND I DON'T KNOW THE ANSWER I'M HAVING THIS DISCUSSION, I THINK IS SOMETHING'S GOOD. BUT WHEN I READ THAT COMMERCIAL APPRAISAL. I WAS SHOCKED AT THE NUMBERS OF WHAT IS HAPPENING RIGHT NEXT TO US AND NOT JUST, YOU KNOW, IT'S IT'S CLEARLY COMING. I DON'T KNOW IF IT'LL BE HERE NEXT YEAR OR TEN YEARS, BUT I THINK NOW IS THE TIME TO START HAVING THE PHILOSOPHICAL DISCUSSIONS TO COME TO SOME. HOW DID THAT HAPPEN THERE, THOUGH? WHAT ENTICED THAT DEVELOPMENT? SEWER AND WATER? THE MAKING OF MONEY IS WHAT MY. NO, I MEAN, WHY DID THE DEVELOPER COME IN? AND WHY WE'RE HAVING ALL THOSE DEVELOPMENTS, WHAT ENTICED THE DEVELOPER TO THINK, I CAN MAKE MONEY DOING THIS? I THINK PEOPLE ARE MOVING OUT OF THE CITY. THE PEOPLE ARE MOVING OUT OF CHESAPEAKE. AND PORTSMOUTH IS BASICALLY WAS A CONCLUSION THAT WAS MADE IN THAT APPRAISAL. WELL, I MEAN, THEY HAVE SEWER AND WATER, THOUGH, RIGHT? YEAH. YES. YES. THESE DEVELOPER. YES. IF YOU PUT IN SEWER WATER, THEN IT'S LIKE HONEY ATTRACTING FLIES MAYBE. [01:15:03] WELL, A LOT OF WHAT'S HAPPENING IN DOWNTOWN SUFFOLK AND I HAVE TO MAKE THAT DRIVE ALMOST EVERY DAY TO MY OFFICE IS, YOU KNOW, IT'S LIKE THE DOWNTOWN TUNNEL ALMOST WHERE THEY'RE HAVING THE CONSTRUCTION. I MEAN, THERE'S A 20 MINUTE WAIT THERE BECAUSE EVERYTHING'S BEEN HAS BEEN BOTTLENECKED. BUT BASICALLY THEY'VE GOT SEWER AND THEY'RE GOING RIGHT DOWN 58. NOW IT'S GOING TO BE A WHILE BEFORE IT GETS TO US, BUT A LOT OF FOLKS DON'T WANT TO BE NEAR THAT, SO THEY WANT TO MOVE OUT. AND I THINK THAT IT THE CONTRARY IS BEING PUSHED FURTHER AND FURTHER OUT, JUST LIKE THE GREEN LINE IN VIRGINIA BEACH. AND I'M VERY FAMILIAR WITH THAT, IS, YOU KNOW, THAT WAS A POLITICAL DECISION. WELL, LET'S HAVE SAND BRIDGE ROAD. WELL, THE MONEY AND THE DEVELOPMENT HIT VIRGINIA BEACH. AND THERE WAS CONDOS. THERE WAS RESTAURANTS. AND. AND WITH THE GENERATIONAL OF THE FARMS. AND PONGO AND ONE OF MY GOOD FRIENDS, MIKE LANNING, WHO'S A DEVELOPER THAT LIVES DOWN THERE AND HE'S A COMMERCIAL DEVELOPER, NOT A RESIDENTIAL DEVELOPER, IS THAT THE GREEN LINE GOT PUSHED BASICALLY TO CAROLINA AND THEY HAD THAT LINE IN THE SAND FOR SO MANY YEARS. BUT ONCE IT BROKE, IT COMPLETELY BROKE. AND IT TOOK ALL NOT ALL, BUT A LOT OF AGRICULTURAL LAND AWAY AND IT WAS COMMERCIALLY DEVELOPED. AND WE DON'T WANT THAT TO HAPPEN HERE. SO THE QUESTION IS, WHAT DO WE DO IN ADVANCE? NOW THAT THE WAVE, SOME TYPE OF WAVE IS COMING? I DON'T THINK IT'S A BIG WAVE NOT BEING AN ALARMIST, BUT JUST LIKE SOLAR PANELS, I THINK WE OUGHT TO LOOK AT IT. WELL, WHAT'S THE BEST WAY TO DO THE LOAD DENSITY? IS IT AN ACRE? IS IT A HALF AN ACRE? IS IT? LET'S GET OUR STUFF TOGETHER. WE SIT HERE TONIGHT AND DEBATE THIS ALL NIGHT AND [INAUDIBLE]. LET'S GET OUR STUFF TOGETHER SO I CAN SEE HOW OTHER COMMUNITIES DID IT AND SEE WHAT THE OPTIONS ARE. AND I THINK THE SEWER AND WATER, BECAUSE I REALLY DON'T KNOW. I THINK THAT IS IS IS KEY FOR SOMEONE THAT'S GOING TO WANT TO COME IN AND DO A BETHEL FARMS AND DO SOME TYPE OF VERY NICE DEVELOPMENT. AND I THINK THAT'S WHAT. MOST OF US WANT IS SOMETHING TO THAT. INSTEAD OF MODULAR STACKED IN WITH NO DRIVEWAY AND NO WAY TO TURN AROUND AND AND THINGS OF THAT NATURE. I'LL TELL YOU WHAT. WE'RE GOING TO TRY TO GET A MAP OF THE WATER AND SEWER. [INAUDIBLE] GO AHEAD. GO AHEAD. WHAT ENCOURAGES THE DEVELOPER TO WANT TO GO IN AND DEVELOP? ONE OF THE THINGS I'VE OBSERVED PERSONALLY AND HAVE HAD FRIENDS OBSERVE IS THAT THE BUILDERS DO WHAT THEY CALL VALUE ENGINEERING, AND THEY CUT JUST ABOUT EVERY CORNER THEY HAVE CAN TO BUILD A NICE LOOKING HOUSE. A FRIEND OF MINE BOUGHT ONE OF THOSE HOUSES ON KINGS LANE AND FRANKLIN THAT WAS FIVE YEARS OLD, AND HE HAD TO SPEND $40,000 TO MAKE IT LIVABLE. AND IT WAS A SECOND OWNER. MY HOUSE WAS FALLEN APART AFTER FIVE YEARS. THANK YOU FOR YOUR COMMENT. APPRECIATE IT. CHAIRMAN I'D LIKE TO SAY SOMETHING. I AGREE. I THINK THE PLAYING NEIGHBORHOOD. BUT I THINK GETTING BACK TO MS. LEWIS, IF SHE CAN GIVE US THOSE AREAS WHERE IT'S OUTLINED AND SEWER . I THINK THAT WOULD HELP US BECAUSE NOT ONLY DO WE NEED TO PLAN ON RESIDENTIAL, BUT I'D HATE TO EAT UP ALL THE 58 WITH HOUSING COST AND THE COUNTY MONEY VERSUS WE CAN HAVE COMMERCIAL DOWN THERE WHERE IT'S GOING TO HAVE A TAX BASE AND GIVE THESE PEOPLE SOMEWHERE TO WORK. I JUST THINK WE JUST NEED TO FIGURE OUT THAT INSTEAD OF JUST THE RESIDENTIAL PIECE. SO I THINK LOOKING AT THE ENTIRE THING TO WHERE THAT SEWER AND WATER IS, THAT'S ALSO BENEFICIAL FOR COMMERCIAL IN ADDITION TO RESIDENTIAL. I CONCUR. I THINK WE ALL DO. WELL, IT'S BEEN A GOOD DISCUSSION. I'M GOING TO KIND OF DRAW IT IN A LITTLE BIT, IF YOU DON'T MIND, BECAUSE IT'S A GOOD STARTING. AND MS. LEWIS CHALLENGE YOU AGAIN. BUT IF WE COULD PURSUE MAYBE GETTING SOME KIND OF MAPPING OF WHERE THOSE UTILITIES ARE LOCATED, THAT WOULD BE VERY BENEFICIAL AS WE CARRY THIS FORWARD. BUT I WANT TO COMMEND EVERYONE. EVERYONE'S HAD GREAT COMMENTS AND I WANT TO THINK WE'RE ALL KIND OF ON THE SAME PAGE. IT'S A MATTER OF HOW WE GET IN ESTABLISHED PARAMETERS, AND THE COMPREHENSIVE PLAN IS THE WAY WE GO ABOUT DOING THIS TO ENCOURAGE GROWTH IN THOSE PREDETERMINED AREAS. AND I DON'T WANT TO SAY DISCOURAGE, BUT ANYWAY, IT GIVES IT GIVES YOU A SENSE WHEN PEOPLE COME IN REQUESTING THOSE APPLICATIONS AND SUCH. SO, MR. LEWIS, I'M LET YOU PROCEED. IS THAT ANY OTHER. WE DIDN'T GET VERY FAR FROM YOUR TOPICS. IS THERE ANYTHING ELSE YOU WOULD LIKE TO EXPAND ON TONIGHT? NOT ABOUT THIS. I JUST WANT TO TELL YOU ABOUT YOUR NEXT TWO MEETINGS. YOUR OCTOBER MEETING. YOU'LL HAVE A GENTLEMAN NAMED TED BARCLAY, WHO IS THE SPECIAL PROJECTS MANAGER FROM CHESTERFIELD COUNTY. [01:20:04] OKAY, VERY GOOD. IT'LL BE A JOINT MEETING BETWEEN THE PLANNING COMMISSION, THE BOARD OF SUPERVISORS AND THE RECONSTITUTED LITTER CONTROL COUNCIL. THAT'LL BE AT YOUR REGULAR MEETING NEXT MONTH. AND YOUR NOVEMBER 10TH MEETING, MR. TENNESSEE IS GOING TO COME AND BE RECOGNIZED FOR HIS YEARS ON THE PLANNING COMMISSION. SO THAT'S WHAT'S GOING ON. YOUR NEXT TWO MEETINGS. DO WE HAVE A DATE ON THAT. ON WHICH MEETING? THE JOINT MEETING, OCTOBER 13TH. OKAY. AND THAT'S THE PLANNING COMMISSION'S REGULAR MEETING NEXT MONTH. AND MS. LEWIS, OF COURSE, YOU KNOW, I HAVE SPOKEN TO MR. TENNESSEE. DO YOU, MAN, WOULD YOU MIND, UM, SOME TYPE OF CORRESPONDENCE TO HIM? JUST AS A REMINDER? YES, I WILL. IT WOULD APPRECIATE THAT WE LOOK FORWARD TO HIM AND HIS FAMILY COMING TO BE RECOGNIZED FOR HIS YEARS OF SERVICE. ANYTHING ELSE? I GOT ANOTHER QUESTION. BUILDING PERMITS, YOU SAID, WENT UP TO ABOUT 120. WHERE WERE THEY MOSTLY RURAL RESIDENTIAL BUILDING PERMITS. WERE THEY ON THE NORTHERN PART OF THE COUNTY? DO YOU HAVE JUST A GENERAL IDEA? PROBABLY A QUARTER TO A THIRD OF THEM ARE FILLING OUT THE NEIGHBORHOODS, THE SANDY CREEK NEIGHBORHOOD AND BETHEL FARMS NEIGHBORHOOD, AND THE THE D.R. HORTON HOMES IN FRANKLIN. AND THE REST ARE STRUNG OUT ALONG SEVERAL ROADS. OKAY. SO THE RURAL ROADS KIND OF CATCHES YOUR ATTENTION WITH ALL THESE PERMITS THIS PAST YEAR. YEAH, BUT THE NUMBER OF BUILDING PERMITS HAS JUST EXPLODED IN THE PAST TWO YEARS. CAN WE GET HIM TO PUT A MAILBOX IN? THEY CAN GO DOWN AND SPRING BACK UP. WELL, IN THE POST OFFICE REQUIRES WHEN YOU BUILD A NEIGHBORHOOD NOW, IF YOU WERE TO IF SOMEONE WAS TO BUILD A NEIGHBORHOOD WITH A NUMBER OF HOMES, THEY DON'T PERMIT MAILBOXES. THEY AT EACH DRIVEWAY, THEY REQUIRE GANG MAILBOXES NOW LIKE YOU HAVE IN APARTMENT COMPLEXES IN SINGLE FAMILY RESIDENTIAL NEIGHBORHOODS. SO THAT'LL HELP SOLVE THAT PROBLEM, ALTHOUGH AGRICULTURAL EQUIPMENT'S NOT GOING DOWN THOSE ROADS. THAT'S RIGHT. RIGHT. BUT THAT'S ONE OF THEIR WAYS TO SAVE MONEY, BECAUSE IT IS VERY EXPENSIVE TO DRIVE UP AND DOWN RURAL ROADS PUTTING MAIL IN MAILBOXES EVERY DAY. IN. ANYTHING ELSE, ANY OF THE BOARD MEMBERS? FOR THE FIRE THAT WE HAD OVER THERE IN THE NEWSOMS AREA WITH THE SOLAR FACILITY. HOW MUCH DAMAGE DID IT DO? WERE YOU AWARE OF THAT? I WAS NOT AWARE OF THAT. OKAY. WELL, I THINK IT WAS LAST SATURDAY. I THINK IT WAS ONE OF THE FACILITIES THAT STARTED THE GRASS CAUGHT ON FIRE. AND THERE WAS A NEIGHBOR THAT WAS TELLING ME I HEARD THE FIRE ALARM GOING OFF. AND IT WAS A PERSON THAT LIVED OUT THERE CLOSE TO IT. HE SAID THE FIRE WAS TOO FAR IN THE FACILITY TO BE JUST A CIGARETTE THAT WAS THROWN OUT AND I DIDN'T KNOW. YOU KNOW, I DON'T KNOW WHETHER YOU'VE HAD ANY REPORTS ON IT. I MEAN, THE MAIN THING IS YOUR FIRE DEPARTMENT, THEY GET OUT THERE AND CUT THE LOCKS AND GO IN, BUT THEY'RE NOT GOING TO JUST SQUIRT WATER EVERYWHERE. PUT YOUR GRASS OUT. SO I DON'T KNOW. IT WOULD BE NICE TO KNOW WHAT THEIR RESPONSE WAS. BOYKINS I KNOW SOME GOOD. I DON'T KNOW. I JUST I KNOW BOYKINS WENT OUT AND I THINK THAT WAS LIKE, I GUESS WE COULD. I DON'T KNOW. I'M NOT I'M RETIRED FROM THE FIRE DEPARTMENT NOW. I DON'T KNOW IF WE COULD REQUEST SOME OF THAT PRIVILEGED INFORMATION. RIGHT. MR. WHITE. [INAUDIBLE] I REQUEST A FINAL REPORT? I DON'T KNOW IF WE COULD DO THAT OR NOT ABOUT THAT, LINDA. WHAT WAS DONE? HOW BIG IT WAS? [INAUDIBLE]. COULD THEY ALSO LIST HOW BIG THE AREA OR SHOULD HAVE AND WHAT KIND OF DAMAGE WAS DONE AND WHAT THEY SUSPECTED? THAT'S ON A STANDARD FIRE REPORT. HE CALLED THE FIRE DEPARTMENT AND HE SAID THAT IT WAS BEHIND CHAMPLIN LUMBER COMPANY AND THAT SEVERAL OF THE PANELS HAD WHITE SMOKE COMING OUT. HE JUST THOUGHT MAYBE THE WIRES MELTED. RIGHT. [INAUDIBLE] AND THEY DID DO TRAINING FOR ALL THE FIRST RESPONDERS BEFORE THEY GOT THEIR FINAL INSPECTIONS. WELL, AND I KNOW IT'S PRIVILEGED INFORMATION AND, YOU KNOW, BUT I THINK IT'S IMPORTANT THAT THE PLANNING COMMISSION AND THE BOARD OF SUPERVISORS KNOWS WHAT WENT ON WITH THIS, BECAUSE THIS IS ONE OF THE ITEMS THAT WE WERE CONCERNED ABOUT, WHAT HAPPENS IF IT CATCHES ON FIRE? THIS IS ANOTHER REASON THAT, YOU KNOW, I ASK, CAN WE GO IN THREE OR FOUR TIMES A YEAR AND JUST LOOK AND WE LEARN SOMETHING EVERY TIME A SITUATION [01:25:04] HAPPENS LIKE THIS? SO I THINK IT'S IMPORTANT TO BE ABLE TO FIND OUT WHETHER WE GET THE SHERIFF TO BRING THE INFO BACK OR WHATEVER. I DON'T WANT TO PUT HIM ON THE SPOT. IF YOU GET SOMEBODY FROM THE FIRE DEPARTMENT. BUT SOME OF THAT SHOULD BE MADE AVAILABLE TO YOU. WELL, AS A CITIZEN, I'LL I'LL ASK AND SEE IF THEY'LL FOLLOW. I DON'T KNOW IF THEY WILL OR NOT. [INAUDIBLE] THOSE REPORTS SHOULD BE PUBLIC ACCESS. PUBLIC? WELL, I WOULD THINK. I MEAN, LIKE A CAR ACCIDENT THAT INVOLVES INDIVIDUALS. THAT'S RIGHT. BUT WHEN YOU TELL THEM ABOUT A FACILITY LIKE THIS, IT'S LIKE THEY MIGHT YOU KNOW, THE HANCOCK PEANUT COMPANY UP HERE CATCHING ON FIRE AND THE ONE IN SEVEN. I MEAN, THAT'S THAT THAT MAKES A DIFFERENCE AS FAR AS PLANNING AND EVERYTHING ELSE. SO I APPRECIATE YOU BRINGING. I WAS NOT AWARE OF THAT. APPRECIATE THAT. MR. TONY, YOU HAD A QUESTION. I DIDN'T KNOW. WE STILL TALKING ABOUT, I GUESS JUST ANYTHING ARE WE'RE GOING TO GO TO LATER TONIGHT. ARE WE GOING TO POSTPONE IT TILL NEXT TIME? BECAUSE I WAS JUST GOING TO BRING UP AND PIGGYBACK MR. [INAUDIBLE] COMMENTS ABOUT THE TIRE MANUFACTURING PLANT THAT'S GOING INTO [INAUDIBLE]. AND YOU KEEP UP ON THE COMMITTEES, THE THREE COMMITTEES, THE BOARD COMMITTEE HAS BEEN APPOINTED. THE SECOND COMMITTEE IS ONE REPRESENTATIVE FROM EACH TOWN. I DON'T THINK WE'VE HEARD FROM ALL THOSE YET. THE THIRD COMMITTEE AT LARGE IS APPOINTED FROM THE LITTER COMMITTEE ITSELF. SO ONCE YOU GET THE FIRST TWO TOGETHER, THE LITTER COMMITTEE APPOINTS THE AT LARGE. SO THAT'S THE SCHEME OF THINGS THAT I'VE BEEN TOLD. OKAY. IS THAT ANSWER? WELL, NO, I WAS JUST GOING TO TALK GO INTO A LITTLE BIT MORE IN DEPTH WITH WHAT WE THOUGHT ABOUT OUR MEETING YESTERDAY WITH THE ISSUE AND THE BOND. WE WERE ASKING THE GENTLEMEN PLENTY OF QUESTIONS ABOUT THE PROCESS AND WHAT THEY WERE GOING TO HAVE ON SITE AND THOSE KIND OF THINGS. AND THEY BASICALLY TAKE A TIRE AND PULL IT INTO FOUR DIFFERENT PIECES AND RECYCLE IT. IT WAS PRE BEFORE I GOT ON THE BOARD WHEN IT CAME ACROSS FOR THE CONDITION OF USE FROM IT AND ALL THAT KIND OF THINGS. BUT NOW THE REVAMP AND NOW THEY'RE GOING ON THE FINANCIAL SIDE WITH GOING AFTER THE $65 MILLION BONDS. BUT I DIDN'T KNOW IF THE COUNTY COULD WORK OUT SOME KIND OF DEAL. WE WERE TALKING ABOUT TIRES LAYING DOWN THE BACK ROADS WHERE PEOPLE CAN'T GET RID OF THEM. IF WE CAN KIND OF GO TO THEM AND SAY, HEY, CAN WE HAVE A COLLECTION SITE TO WORK WITH? IF THE COUNTY PICKS UP THESE TIRES, CAN THEY DISPOSE THEM FOR US INSTEAD OF US HAVING TO THROW THEM IN CHIPS AND PUT THEM IN A LANDFILL? MAYBE WE CAN KIND OF PIGGYBACK TO HELP OUT OUR LITTLE PROBLEM WITH LEAST THE TIRE PIECE OF IT, RIGHT? SO IT GOES IN FRONT OF THE BOARD OF SUPERVISORS ON YOUR SEPTEMBER, IT LOOKS LIKE YOU COULD DESIGNATE A COLLECTION SITE AND WHATEVER MIGHT BRING THE TAG. ORIGINALLY, THE TIRE PLACE THAT'S GOT TO DO 25 TO 1,000 TIRES A DAY. SO THEY WEREN'T GOING TO DO THIS. THEY WEREN'T GOING TO TAKE DIRTY TIRES. BUT THEN I'VE HEARD SINCE THEN THEY MAY HAVE SAID, OKAY, MAYBE WE CAN'T. I'M NOT I'M NOT SURE WHAT YOU'RE UP TO DATE MORE ON THAT. HE SAID HE WOULD WORK WITH THE COUNTY, BUT THAT'S GOOD. HE DIDN'T WANT ANY DIRTY TIRES FULL OF MUD BECAUSE HE SAID IF IT DIDN'T HAVE MUD ON IT, HE COULD THEY WOULD TAKE THEM. THAT'S A CHANGE. THEN THEY SAID THEY WOULDN'T. OKAY. ORIGINALLY THERE WAS NO DIRTY TIRE. THEY WERE ALL TAKING DEFECTS AND HE SAID THAT'S THE BULK OF THEIR BUSINESS. BUT I DID ASK THE QUESTION. HE SAYS AS LONG AS THEY DIDN'T HAVE A LOT OF WATER INSIDE AND IT WAS COVERED IN RED CLAY, HE SAYS, IF IT WAS JUST A TIRE, YOU TOOK OFF YOUR FARM SHOP, BUT YOU JUST TOOK OFF THE TRUCK. YOU THEY WOULD TAKE IT. OR IF THEY FOUND A DECENT ONE, ACCOUNTING WENT AND CLEANED UP. SOMEBODY WENT AND DISPOSED OF SIX OR SEVEN TIRES OF THE COLLECTION SITE WHEN IT CLOSED ONE NIGHT, THE COUNTY COULD CARRY IT TO GET RID OF IT. SO I THINK WE CAN MAYBE WORK OUT SOME KIND OF RELATIONSHIP WITH THEM. I DIDN'T KNOW THAT I WOULD KNOW WHAT I'M GOING TO DO WITH THAT ONE. IT'S GOING TO BE PROBABLY ALMOST TWO YEARS FROM NOW BEFORE THEY'RE ACTUALLY DE MANUFACTURING TIRES THERE. IT WAS A PRETTY INTERESTING PRESENTATION BECAUSE THAT WAS THE FIRST THAT I WAS AWARE OF IT JUST BECAUSE THEY HAD GOT THERE. I THINK IT WENT IN FRONT OF THE PLANNING COMMISSION 2018, I THINK 15 THEY GOT SOME THINGS GOING AND THEN COVID HIT AND KIND OF PUT THEM BEHIND. [INAUDIBLE] A MOTION TO ASK THE BOARD TO CONSIDER THAT AND LOOK INTO IT. BUT THANK YOU FOR ELABORATING, MR. TURNER, BECAUSE I GOT HIS CARD AND HE SAID THAT THEY TOOK A THEY SAID BOARD OF SUPERVISORS AND PLANNING COMMISSION MEMBERS AND SOME OF THE FRANKLIN SOUTHAMPTON ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT PEOPLE DOWN TO DO A TOUR OF THEIR FRANKLIN PLANT. AND I WENT AND. SUPERVISOR JONES THAT'S CORRECT. HEY, MR. JOHNSON AND MR. JOHNSON. SO HE SAID HE WOULD WELCOME TO COME AND SPEAK OR EITHER WE COULD GO TAKE A TOUR. AND I THINK WE HAD TALKED ABOUT GOING DOWN THERE TO TAKE A LOOK AT IT. VERY GOOD. WELL, I THINK THERE'S A NEVER TIRES ON DELAWARE ROADS, SHERIFF. [01:30:06] WELL, THAT'S ONE PIECE OF OUR PUZZLE WITH THE LITTER CONTROL. SO THAT'S WHAT SAYING WE CAN WORK THAT RELATIONSHIP TO BE ABLE TO DISPOSE OF THEM. I THINK THAT WOULD BE THREE WEEKS AGO. IT WAS JUST ONE PILE AFTER ANOTHER. INSTEAD OF LETTING IT DIE. I THINK IT WOULD BE GOOD FOR THE PLANNING COMMISSION TO GO AHEAD AND EXPRESS THAT TO THE BOARD SO THAT COULD BE DISCUSSED AND NOT FORGOTTEN WHEN WE'RE DEALING WITH THEM DOWN THE LINE. OKAY. SO Y'ALL CAN SEND A STATEMENT TO THE BOARD, I'LL MAKE A MOTION WE DO THAT. AND THE POSSIBILITY OF A COLLECTION SITE FOR THE COUNTY. YEAH, BUT A LITTLE PICK UP. SO I HAVE A MOTION AND A SECOND, ANY OTHER DISCUSSION? IF NOT, ALL OPPOSED SAY AYE, AYE. AND OPPOSED LIKE SIGN. ITS UNANIMOUS. OKAY. WE'LL SEND THAT STATEMENT UP, MRS. LEWIS, TO THE NEXT MEETING. ANYTHING ELSE? Y'ALL READY TO GO HOME? I THINK IT'S THE FIRST NFL FOOTBALL GAME. I WAS GOING TO SAY IT'S FOOTBALL. LOOK FOR A MOTION. MOTION TO ADJOURN. SECOND. MOTION AND A SECOND. THANK YOU ALL FOR BEING HERE AND HAVE A SAFE TRIP HOME. * This transcript was compiled from uncorrected Closed Captioning.